Anyone else get a phone call from United today?

[GuppyWN]

Sounds great. But first I think we should make 7th year pay $200/hr.

Gup

 

[jayme]

(You ARE being facetious, aren't you?)

 

[waveflyer]

Sounds great. But first I think we should make 7th year pay $200/hr.

Gup

^^**sigh**^^
What's your point? I'm serious... and southwest isn't the problem.... I know pilots who made $70-80k in their first year at WN... they had to work for it- but it was there if they wanted it. You won't lose your house and have to feed your kids top ramen if you go there.

7th year pay has nothing to do with it.

It's a problem when you can't change companies no matter how bad it gets at your current airline. Jayme got it.

Taking care of the most junior among us sends so many messages to management.

Not one pilot struggles = anywhere...

If we all keep looking out for number 1 - we will continue to slide- and yes- even southwest will have to take cuts....

It's our choice.

 

[PCL_128]

You would have to expend tremendous amounts of negotiating capital to achieve first year rates that you are looking for. Companies are extremely resistant to paying first year pilots very much because they feel that a pilot hasn't proven to be a wise investment until after he completes his probationary year. Until then, he's still basically an at-will employee. Airlines spend tens of thousands of dollars on each new-hire pilot, so paying them $70k their first year also isn't exactly something that management would accept easily. You would have to give up a lot in other areas to achieve that. Most pilots don't feel that it's a wise investment of negotiating capital to achieve such high rates of pay for probationary members. I think you'd have a very hard time convincing your fellow pilots that it's worth what they'd have to give up in other areas.

 

[jayme]

But you'd eventually get some of that capital back because ALL pilots would be empowered to leave if their company started trying to play hardball. I am absolutely convinced that in the long run labor would come out ahead.

 

[PCL_128]

But you'd eventually get some of that capital back because ALL pilots would be empowered to leave if their company started trying to play hardball. I am absolutely convinced that in the long run labor would come out ahead.

In order for it to work, you'd have to get the MECs and pilot groups at virtually every carrier to get on board with the idea. As we've seen, getting two MECs to agree on something is hard enough. Getting a few dozen of them to agree is pretty much impossible.

 

[waveflyer]

are you saying you agree or disagree? or you just think it'll be hard? I don't get it.

This is why people are upset at the LACK of leadership in ALPA-- there's no national plan... everybody for themselves including the lawyers...? Every MEC looks out for themself? Regardless of their affect on the industry? ("Industry Standard" is the beginning of any negotiation, right?) Each section of the pilot group looks out for themself?- Senior vs Junior?- Wide Body vs narrow body vs rj vs turboprop? (never mind that we are ALL AVIATORS! Different challenges, yes- but all of us are gamers and FLYERS.)

That's been the scenario- and there's no leadership? Division in every way possible is okay? That scenario is how it has been and that's okay to ALPA national??

keep on the same way and dues will continue to decrease.... if you want to look at it that way.

Remember- our predecessors flew DC-3's-and their pay and work rules were much worse than Mesa- But they UNITED- there was a time when bargaining individually was something we fought for- it worked-- now it's not but we cling to it. A DAL 747 captain made a $105k in the early 70's- that's $500k in today's money- Flying today has different challenges-- but I respect aviation and believe it's worth what it was worth then. And remember- when a career is split up by a company failure- if a pilot loses their job after 8 years and is able to start over within a year at a comparable airline- it's about a 50% cut in career earnings.

 

[waveflyer]

Besides- i'll call b**lsh*t. A company spends a lot more trying to get a senior round dial pilot up to speed on a 777 than they do a new hire. It's just not a priority to the pilot group- My argument is that if it was - we'd all make gains in the long run.

 

[pilotyip]

Adam Smith1780

If we all keep looking out for number 1 - we will continue to slide- and yes- even southwest will have to take cuts....It's our choice.

Adam Smith "Wealth of Nations", first Economics book. Rule #1 everyone looks out for thier own best interest, all economics decisions are based upon this assumption. I think it still works that way.

 

[Morning Wood]

A majority of AAI pilots were hired after 9/11 when the legacies were furloughing and taking huge paycuts. Guys like myself and Lear70 came to work here after looking at the other airlines as they exist now and realized that pay/working conditions were just as good here (if not better) than the legacies.

So you weighed all your options and chose Air Tran over a legacy? I don't think going to UAL or DAL was even an option post 9/11. You along with thousands of other people went to work where hiring was going on, not because an LCC was a better option at the time. Your choice may work out for you in the long run just another person's choice to return to UAL or try to get in as a new hire may work for him or her.