Anyone else get a phone call from United today?

[pilotyip]

Yea the Kaliatta new hires are now at the same rate as a USA Jet DC-9 F/O, $57.12/hr

 

[waveflyer]

Igneousy-

How is averaging the first 5 years of FO pay a concession for management? It's the same amount of money- why would management care how it's divided up? Why would that have to be negotiated at all?

Is there any pilot in the world that wouldn't sacrifice making $100/hour in the 5th year to avoid making $31/hour in the 1st. It's the same total money- i'd rather have a consistent $70/hour - and raises could still come by transitioning to bigger a/c.

Again- i would find much more security in knowing that if i lose my job - my next job will still be fairly high paying- We'll be punished enough by losing seniority- at least we'll still make a good wage by society standards.

If pilots can get better with money- save their own strike fund- and have the security of knowing 1st year pay isn't below the poverty level in most large cities- we can all take stands that we can't do now.

It's all about setting the stage for 2008. UPS didn't have any luck with this administration either.

 

[PCL_128]

How about the guys that are already on 4th year pay? Their payrate would have to drop for that year and the following year because the new average would be weighted down towards the earlier years. Using your SWA example with a blended rate of $93/hr, a 5th year FO at SWA would see his rate drop from $119/hr. That's about $30,000 in concessions for him so that the newhires can have a better first 5 years. Kind of hard to swallow.

 

[iaflyer]

What would the reaction of your pilots have been if the new hires got 40% and everybody else got 1-2 or zero?

Honestly, I don't know. Sure, there was some grumbling that we weren't getting a big enough pay raise, but I never heard people complaining that the first year guys were "taking" it away from us.

If I heard a 15 year Captain saying that, I'd respond with - so you want some of these new hires and guys sitting in the right sit thinking about whether they can pay their mortgage than how this approach is doing? Sure, everyone has earned the pay that comes with their seniority but to make first year pay SO low is tough. I expect that places like United/NWA/Continental might not get some of the most experienced guys, only because they can't/don't want to take the pay cut.

As for the company wanting to up the first year pay - perhaps, I wasn't at the negotiating table. However our contract allows the company to modify first year pay to whatever they want - without having to negotiate it. So they could of done it anytime they wanted if they felt they need to.

 

[waveflyer]

How about the guys that are already on 4th year pay? Their payrate would have to drop for that year and the following year because the new average would be weighted down towards the earlier years. Using your SWA example with a blended rate of $93/hr, a 5th year FO at SWA would see his rate drop from $119/hr. That's about $30,000 in concessions for him so that the newhires can have a better first 5 years. Kind of hard to swallow.

Don't set it up that way- Let the people hired in AFTER the new contract come in at the new rate... That kind of inverse grandfathering happens all the time...There's a solution- but not if noone thinks it's important.

The point is NOT about making NEW HIRES LIFE MORE COMFORTABLE- We up 1st year pay everywhere to give us ALL a better negotiating stance...

NOT ONE PILOT STRUGGLES. Look out for the bottom guy everywhere and the senior pilots will be taken care of- Sell out the junior guy- and that will eventually reach the senior as well. Bind together as aviators- None of this civilian v military, wide v narrow body, senior v junior, regional v major sh*t- and that sends a message to management's everywhere that we are not going to sell anyone out- that we all deserve to make a livable wage- C'mon- management's have gone after regional payrates-- That should teach us all that we will never make a low enough amount.

You know someone once told me-- Pilots are the stupidest smart people you'll ever meet- i think they'd rather be the highest paid at $90k than the lowest paid at a $100k. We should be doing what's in our best interests LONG term.

You've already agreed that upping first year pay would be a good thing for ALL pilots- why do you keep coming up with excuses not to do it?

 

[PCL_128]

Don't set it up that way- Let the people hired in AFTER the new contract come in at the new rate...

You've already agreed that upping first year pay would be a good thing for ALL pilots- why do you keep coming up with excuses not to do it?

Not trying to make excuses, just trying to work through all of the potential problems. That's the problem that many line pilots have: they want instant solutions without thinking things through completely. The average union rep, on the other hand, sees the pitfalls, and wants to work through them and make sure that mistakes aren't made.

I think your idea has promise. Using the new "blended" scale for newhires while continuing the graduated scale for guys already on property would probably work. I still think that you'll have to give up in other areas quite a bit to make this happen, though, so it's up to the pilots to decide whether the benefits outweigh the negatives. I think you should bring this idea forward at your next Local Council meeting in the form of a resolution directing the MEC to study the idea. Perhaps they'll determine that it would be a worthwhile tactic during their next set of negotiations. Everything starts with the line pilot. Talking about it on flightinfo won't get it moving. You have to take action from within the structure of the union. That's how change is made.

 

[stall022]

I guess I’m crazier then I thought. I received this email about 2 days after the psych test. it's back to the loony bin/mesa for the next 24 months for me.....


.......Thank you for your interest in the pilot position with United Airlines. At this time, we have other candidates who more closely meet our requirements. You are welcome to reapply for consideration 24 months from the date of this correspondence.

We wish you the best in your future endeavors.

Best regards,
Human Resources Department
United Airlines......

 

[PCL_128]

24 months?!? Are these guys crazy? They'll be lucky if they get enough candidates to fill classes for the first 12 months. By 24 months they'll be hiring kids right out of high school. "Best of the best," indeed.

 

[Z_Pilot]

24 MOS!?!

Daaaaayumn.


I got the "call us M-F 8 to 4" email.
I was sure I was looney. (Maybe I am for applying to UAL)

Anyways, I am calling tomorrow.

I am in the blind folks, help....!

The last update on the WFFF gouge is from 1999....

 

[Z_Pilot]

5000TT, 2000 PIC tubine, ATP, Evaluator, no internal rec. I Took the psyc test and got the email a couple of days after the test saying "We are closely assessing your application with United Airlines" It basically goes on to say thanks but we'll call you if needed, I think???

Wait a few days and let us know if they send you the "call us this week" email.

ZP