Any SWA or Airtran pilots see recent SLI at Mesaba/Colgan/Pinnacle?

[On Your Six]

Clear as a VFR day.



I got news for you, the Pilots are not alone.
Key word: "sharing" - whats tranny sharing with us? Besides their village idiot.

:cartman:

Again, a classic response. Anyway, forget the ATL hub with gates, entrance into DCA, more LGA slots, more 737-800 delivery slots, and getting rid of a low cost competitor. I recall GK saying you guys NEEDED Airtran. Maybe he was just talking about the company itself, not your pilot group.


OYS

 

[waveflyer]

Entertainment only.
I'm on self imposed FI vacation and will let y'all sling it out and put trust in my NC.
Good luck with all those arguments guys.

 

[texman]

Your chances of anything close to a staple are rapidly going down the toilet. Everytime a new arbitrated award comes out, we all see a better picture of what your future SLI could look like if it goes that route. I am only trying to provide some advice here.

Airtran pilots, seriously look into taking the arbitration route. And Texman, like that 80's song states, "Don't go away mad, just go away.....". Many people on this public forum are interested in this SLI outcome. You need to realize that. Godspeed, you bully.


OYS

OK buddy. Do a little research. I never mentioned once about a staple. Apparently you think I have or did. A/M and M/B apply here idiot. So do you jerky, jerky to this stuff? You are one pissed off weird dude.

 

[Tripower455]

Wow, you guys are gullible..... keep feeding the troll!

 

[FlyinGuy]

If it isnt a fair offer, then I suggest arbitration.
OYS

This says it all....who cares what you suggest.

 

[johnsonrod]

OK buddy. Do a little research. I never mentioned once about a staple. Apparently you think I have or did. A/M and M/B apply here idiot. So do you jerky, jerky to this stuff? You are one pissed off weird dude.

Sounds like the truth is hurting some people more than others. Sounds like OYS is hitting pretty close to the mark for a lot of people - most people just don't want to acknowledge the real situation and how this integration could potentially evolve.

No, this probably won't be a clean integration by any means. SWA's "welcoming and fun" culture will be anything but. This regional example has set a precedent and there are some similarities with your situation that could potentially impact the outcome. I agree that GK and Wall Street probably want to see an ROI on this merger sooner than later and agreements will need to be made - and not everyone will be happy. That's always the case. I guess sometimes the truth hurts and people don't want to hear it...

 

[Bob Dylan]

So the bod at Southwest Airlines is going to be okay with their world famous employee relations being nuked by a third party arbitrator.

Uh, don't think so.

It will either be a tranny staple (very few unhappy trannies) or no integration at all. Count on it.

 

[On Your Six]

OK buddy. Do a little research. I never mentioned once about a staple. Apparently you think I have or did. A/M and M/B apply here idiot. So do you jerky, jerky to this stuff? You are one pissed off weird dude.

Thank you for trying to be civil. My point here is that I hope this SLI is fair to both groups. Some pilots on here don't want that. I believe, along with others, that arbitration is the best way to get over greedy hurdles. Someone without an actual piece of the action, ie an arbitrator. Would it be great to see a fair negotiated SLI between the two groups? Yes. Is that likely due to pressures from each group towards their own negotiators? Nope. That is key. So, to keep that great culture of yours intact, I would think your groups would do what every other merger group has done as of late, and that is let someone outside decide. That doesn't always mean your group will get less, even though recent awards may point otherwise. Godspeed to you and your group.



OYS

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

OK I'm ready to settle this Lets just let OYS, Ty, and GL be our panel. The AAI pilots would be awarded the first 1700 spots on the list and then we could all move on.

 

[Skyboy722]

And is the 735 a cat2 airplane (size) like the 717? It should be.
OYS

Reading comprehension not your thing?

Southwest
5887 pilots and 544 a/c= 10.82 pilots/ac
519 cat 1 a/c= 5617 cat 1 pilots
25 cat 2 a/c= 270 cat2 pilots

 

[On Your Six]

Reading comprehension not your thing?

So much hate, and fear apparently. Godspeed to you.


OYS

 

[SWA/FO]

Yeah, we hate you. "Godspeed OY^ = you tool"

 

[Flycatcher99]

I agree that GK and Wall Street probably want to see an ROI on this merger sooner than later and agreements will need to be made - and not everyone will be happy...

True. So why would GK be in any special hurry to bring all the AAI pilots onto SWA pay and benefits?

 

[dicko]

I don't think so. Like someone said earlier, GK and MVdV do not want anything but a negotiated list. If it goes to arbitration, then all bets are off.

From the PA:

Section II

(e) In the event either ALPA or SWAPA fails to ratify the negotiated integrated seniority
list, the list and the implementation schedule and letters of agreement delineated in
Section II (d) shall be null and void and without any force and effect and shall not be
admissible for any purpose in any proceeding including but not limited to any arbitration​

under this Agreement.

Keep your day job.

It says "the letters of agreement delineated in Sec II(d) shall be null and void" ..... Section II(d) is null and void. I dont want to put it in CAPS because that would be cruel.

The next section is Sec III .... Mediation. Then Arbitration.

Keep up the adult literacy classes. You'll get there.

 

[humveedriver]

I don't think so. Like someone said earlier, GK and MVdV do not want anything but a negotiated list. If it goes to arbitration, then all bets are off.

From the PA:

Section II

(e) In the event either ALPA or SWAPA fails to ratify the negotiated integrated seniority
list, the list and the implementation schedule and letters of agreement delineated in
Section II (d) shall be null and void and without any force and effect and shall not be
admissible for any purpose in any proceeding including but not limited to any arbitration​

under this Agreement.

I believe that quote applies to the negotiated list between the two unions. In other words if either pilot group turns down the negotiated list delivered by the MC/NC's, than all that work, the arguments made and the list itself are tossed in the trash can and have no influence on the next step of the process which is arbitration. There is additional language in the PA that addresses how the SLI would be integrated should it go to arbitration. I do think a negotiated SLI is the way to go to accelerate the gains of merging operations. I have no idea idea what our 3 arbitrators will do, but the precedent being set by the last few arbitrated SLI awards does not appear to be in line with what the average SWA pilot on this board is looking for.

 

[Flycatcher99]

I have no idea idea what our 3 arbitrators will do, but the precedent being set by the last few arbitrated SLI awards does not appear to be in line with what the average SWA pilot on this board is looking for.

The "last few arbitrated SLI awards" that have been discussed on here were NW/DL (two equally weighted majors), F6/RAH (a bankrupt small major being bought by a regional conglomerate), and a merger between a formerly bankrupt large regional, a midsized regional, and a smaller regional.

Not one of these mergers held the clear asymmetry of SWA/AAI.

 

[humveedriver]

The "last few arbitrated SLI awards" that have been discussed on here were NW/DL (two equally weighted majors), F6/RAH (a bankrupt small major being bought by a regional conglomerate), and a merger between a formerly bankrupt large regional, a midsized regional, and a smaller regional.

Not one of these mergers held the clear asymmetry of SWA/AAI.

I really am trying to see this from your point of view. For my money, if I was a SWA pilot I would want to retain what little control I had over this deal by giving the AT pilots just enough to get a yes vote. I know how you feel about the last arbitrated awards.. i don't know how or what our 3 arb's will feel or think. Thing is, even if you are exactly right. The outcome for the AT pilots is about the same. That's where the real asymmetry exists.

 

[Flycatcher99]

I really am trying to see this from your point of view. For my money, if I was a SWA pilot I would want to retain what little control I had over this deal by giving the AT pilots just enough to get a yes vote. I know how you feel about the last arbitrated awards.. i don't know how or what our 3 arb's will feel or think. Thing is, even if you are exactly right. The outcome for the AT pilots is about the same. That's where the real asymmetry exists.

Honestly, I don't know what an arbitration would bring. You might be right that it would play to AAI advantage. But it might not, given the many details that our Bredhoff & Kaiser labor attorneys have lined up. Either way, my main point here is that the ad nausiam recitation of SLI arbitrations of carriers that bear little to no resemblance to either SWA or AAI is neither here nor there.

 

[Crash Pad]

On your six.... Did you really wake up one morning and read the SLI decision for Colgan? For that I solute you. You have already invested more thought in our merger than I have.

I am actually curious if the lead attorney from Bredhoff & Kaiser actually read it. Maybe a junior associate had to read it at $350 an hour and prepare a one page brief. The brief was ignored, of course, because in an arbitration there is no such thing as precedent.

You on the other hand bounded out of bed to read it so you could start a thread on flightinfo. You did it for zero dollars... I now understand why we only get paid for flight time. We are willing to do almost anything for free.

 

[johnsonrod]

Reading comprehension not your thing?

What's odd is how SWA pilots view the 717 as a "regional" airplane and yet they don't acknowledge that, in terms of seating, the 737-500 is pretty darn close. It's an attempt to weaken the Air Tran pilots' negotiating position - simple as that. How many 735s does SWA operate? Are SWA pilots paid differently to fly a "trip" on a 735 vs. a 733? I doubt it.