Anderson to align capacity with demand

[jetflier]

I knew guys on the 764 that would only bid the domestic stuff, and said it was the most senior. All they were doing were SLC and MCO layovers, but for a lot higher pay than the regular 757/767.

If you look at the ATL ER category now, we have plenty of DOM trips, and it is a nice change every once and a while. It also allows for landings when you are short.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General...

You ain't no spring chicken either. When are you retiring ?

Maybe you can come fly a real man's airplane before you do,...the venerable DC9 !

 

[Fly4hire]

So, can I bid, 767 B ASIAN HOTTIE as opposed to 767 EURO CLASSIC, or 767 ARFICA DEETSMELLY?

... oh who am I kidding? I'm solidly in the DC9B JAN or MD88B-FINDTHEPOLE&LADDER categories. ACL65, remind me where are the shutoff valves that prevent the gear from retracting ? and isn't it that if you hold at the FMC speed the thing stalls and falls out of the sky in a turn? I forgot.

What's a FMC? Holding speeds are in the QRM. Did you remember to write down the ZFW? "Delta 123, I show you 2 mile south off centerline" "Pretty good for a DC9....." 1st round is on me

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It all comes back quite quickly, so I am told.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

What's a FMC? Holding speeds are in the QRM. Did you remember to write down the ZFW? "Delta 123, I show you 2 mile south off centerline" "Pretty good for a DC9....." 1st round is on me

Hey, the airways are four miles wide for a reason!

 

[hockeypilot44]

What do you mean? A lot of your older NWA guys will bail soon.(next few years) That will be good for all of us.


Bye Bye--General Lee

It won't help us. We might avoid furloughs, but we won't hire either. Delta is a shrinking airline.

 

[General Lee]

It won't help us. We might avoid furloughs, but we won't hire either. Delta is a shrinking airline.

Well, I don't really think that is accurate. We are parking some planes now, but not retiring them. (that means they COULD come back in better times---like next Summer) We are hung up on a 100 seater because there aren't that many new versions out there, other than the E190 and the 717. We have route authorities that we haven't exercised yet (New Zealand, Samoa, and nonstop to Singapore), that could bump up some numbers. And..........we are slowly starting to park RJs (mainly 50 seaters), and we are starting to replace them with some DC9s (10 are supposedly going to ATL, and will probably do some of their short routes). And all of this in a down economy. If one of the other legacies fail, then we may move in on their territories. You never know what will happen, and down cycles usually are followed by up cycles. If that up cycle occurs during lots of retirements, that would mean hiring.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General...

You ain't no spring chicken either. When are you retiring ?

Maybe you can come fly a real man's airplane before you do,...the venerable DC9 !

Well, I feel old some days. I still have about 20 years until 65. I hope not to go that long, but you never know. My wife does well as an AD VP, so that helps on the money front. As far as the DC9 goes, I just don't think I could handle it. I could have been an MD88 Captain a few years ago, and decided against it. I was hoping for a 738 Captain slot, but downsizing hasn't helped, at least here in ATL. That may be a few more years down the road. But you guys should enjoy that DC9 and I am happy to see them around and can't wait to see more of them in ATL.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Fly4hire]

We are hung up on a 100 seater because there aren't that many new versions out there, other than the E190 and the 717. Bye Bye--General Lee

GL, I believe that is all deliberately manipulated expectations on the part of management. Been hearing the same line for the last 5 years over at N. "We are studying, waiting...".

The fact is no manufacturer is going to commit without a major order, and we are saying there is nothing out there. In the mean time the Scope keeps getting looser and the 76 seaters keep coming. We'll be at 2012 and management will say we need a 100 seater, but there is none, gee, can we put 10 more seats in the E175's or CRJ900? Otherwise we'll lose money and have to furlough and it will be presented as loosen Scope to preserve jobs .

Forget all the SLI arguments about the DC9, it can fly for another 10-15 years as is and you can throw in a $7K GPS if they ever get around to actually modernizing navaids. Fact is right now the DC9 (if the S contingent on the MEC embraces it) is going to save our butt from further Scope erosion.

Yes it is old, cold, but would you rather see it flying in DAL colors or more of the 76 seaters in Connection colors? I'll bet you a bottle of your favorite beverage that if the MEC were to actually draw the line on Scope and say over our dead bodies (intead of take that junior guy) the DC9's life span would miraculously extend.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather being flying a comfy, cool, glass replacement, but right now that old DC9 and a few words in section 1 are all that stand between us and 1500 furloughs.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

You are being nice with 1500. Give 100 seat jets and everything below a 757 will be outsourced.

Going to be a nice presentation up in DC on the 9th for the ALPA Negotiating committees, etc. I would love to see how the room reacts to what it said.

 

[Fly4hire]

You are being nice with 1500. Give 100 seat jets and everything below a 757 will be outsourced.

Going to be a nice presentation up in DC on the 9th for the ALPA Negotiating committees, etc. I would love to see how the room reacts to what it said.

Who is presenting what?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

A certain well known individual to the scope battle is making a presentation on scope to a these people. I would love to get in to the room, but I have other pressing matters.

 

[FDJ2]

A certain well known individual to the scope battle is making a presentation on scope to a these people. I would love to get in to the room, but I have other pressing matters.

Is Dan Ford up their trying to "dictate" everyones scope language again? Neither Dan or National dictates scope, it is up to each MEC to establish its own negotiating priorities.

 

[General Lee]

GL, I believe that is all deliberately manipulated expectations on the part of management. Been hearing the same line for the last 5 years over at N. "We are studying, waiting...".

The fact is no manufacturer is going to commit without a major order, and we are saying there is nothing out there. In the mean time the Scope keeps getting looser and the 76 seaters keep coming. We'll be at 2012 and management will say we need a 100 seater, but there is none, gee, can we put 10 more seats in the E175's or CRJ900? Otherwise we'll lose money and have to furlough and it will be presented as loosen Scope to preserve jobs .

Forget all the SLI arguments about the DC9, it can fly for another 10-15 years as is and you can throw in a $7K GPS if they ever get around to actually modernizing navaids. Fact is right now the DC9 (if the S contingent on the MEC embraces it) is going to save our butt from further Scope erosion.

Yes it is old, cold, but would you rather see it flying in DAL colors or more of the 76 seaters in Connection colors? I'll bet you a bottle of your favorite beverage that if the MEC were to actually draw the line on Scope and say over our dead bodies (intead of take that junior guy) the DC9's life span would miraculously extend.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather being flying a comfy, cool, glass replacement, but right now that old DC9 and a few words in section 1 are all that stand between us and 1500 furloughs.

Trust me, I would vote to keep those DC9s as long as possible. Just because I personally don't want to fly one, doesn't mean I don't want them around. There are plenty of us who do want to fly them, and we don't want any more 76 seaters coming our way. Also, I don't see many of us voting for 100 seaters going to DCI. Sure, the top crowd sometimes have a "give me more pay" attitude (regardless of the consequences), but the majority don't want to see another RJ. Lee Moak is getting criticized for the last deal he made with the company, and that will likely be his last give-a-way or he will lose his job in an uprising. We all know where this is going, and the vast majority will stand up and be against it. Regardless, we may need some tougher DAL-N negotiators, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Is Dan Ford up their trying to "dictate" everyone's scope language again? Neither Dan or National dictates scope, it is up to each MEC to establish its own negotiating priorities.

I believe it is his presentation.

 

[Fly4hire]

We all know where this is going, and the vast majority will stand up and be against it. Regardless, we may need some tougher DAL-N negotiators, though.
Bye Bye--General Lee

Don't count on that - the remainder of the DAL-N MEC that got jobs (other than elected) did so by kissing LM's ring and keep their positions at His pleasure. The resistance to any Scope change will come from the direction the Reps give the Neg Cmte, and MEMRAT vote.

 

[michael707767]

Don't count on that - the remainder of the DAL-N MEC that got jobs (other than elected) did so by kissing LM's ring and keep their positions at His pleasure. The resistance to any Scope change will come from the direction the Reps give the Neg Cmte, and MEMRAT vote.

He is right. If you are counting on LM and the current MEC to hold the line on scope, you are living in a dream world.

 

[tomgoodman]

Southern Alps & Fjordland

We have route authorities that we haven't exercised yet ...New Zealand......

Sure would like to see that one start soon.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Don't count on that - the remainder of the DAL-N MEC that got jobs (other than elected) did so by kissing LM's ring and keep their positions at His pleasure. The resistance to any Scope change will come from the direction the Reps give the Neg Cmte, and MEMRAT vote.

You have come correct.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

And why exactly are they even going to allow this clown in the room? All this is going to do is make him and his followers feel they have a seat at OUR scope table. I hope they make it clear to him that he works for a subcontractor and has no rights to any flying.

I believe it is his presentation.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It is my understanding that it is for all of ALPA. Not just us major guys.

The neat thing is you can listen to what he has to say, see where he is coming from, get his game plan, and then decide to use the information or dump it. I would just like to be sitting in the room to hear what he as well as everyone else has to say.

 

[FDJ2]

I believe it is his presentation.

That's what I thought, another waste of time and dues money.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Lol.

.

 

[FDJ2]

He is right. If you are counting on LM and the current MEC to hold the line on scope, you are living in a dream world.

Lee Moak's term will be up in another year and a half I believe. In either case, prior to section six negotiations. The remainder of his term will most likely focus on putting two pilot groups together, not negotiating scope.

Our pilot groups have changed and so have our priorities. Few are around who will sell everything for their precious DB promisary note. A larger percentage than ever see the RJ for what it is, replacement flying for the narrow bodied fleet. We've witnessed the absurdity of furloughing mainline pilots while the company replaces them with pilot puppy mill graduates at the DCI potfolio. We've witnessed the greed, pettiness and arrogance of some of DCI portfolio pilots when they attempted to leverage furloughed pilots for more scope concessions, while simultaneously suing to eliminate scope. Two recent scope related resolutions past at LEC 44 against the wishes of some entrenched MEC insiders, the last one overwhelmingly. The details of the resolutions aren't as important as the shot across the bow. It ought to serve as a wake up call. We have a different perspective then we've had in the past. With the LEC elections coming between now and Section six, I expect that the reps will be less inclined to follow the lead of 777 and 767ER captains who have apparently little interest in defending flying that is below their seniority number. Rant over.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Lee Moak's term will be up in another year and a half I believe. In either case, prior to section six negotiations. The remainder of his term will most likely focus on putting two pilot groups together, not negotiating scope.

Our pilot groups have changed and so have our priorities. Few are around who will sell everything for their precious DB promisary note. A larger percentage than ever see the RJ for what it is, replacement flying for the narrow bodied fleet. We've witnessed the absurdity of furloughing mainline pilots while the company replaces them with pilot puppy mill graduates at the DCI potfolio. We've witnessed the greed, pettiness and arrogance of some of DCI portfolio pilots when they attempted to leverage furloughed pilots for more scope concessions, while simultaneously suing to eliminate scope. Two recent scope related resolutions past at LEC 44 against the wishes of some entrenched MEC insiders, the last one overwhelmingly. The details of the resolutions aren't as important as the shot across the bow. It ought to serve as a wake up call. We have a different perspective then we've had in the past. With the LEC elections coming between now and Section six, I expect that the reps will be less inclined to follow the lead of 777 and 767ER captains who have apparently little interest in defending flying that is below their seniority number. Rant over.

Amen!

Sounds like you might be running for FO rep!

 

[Fly4hire]

FDJ2,

Well said, however we must remain ever vigilant to LOA's or MOU's that might somehow trade a quid here for a Scope pro there. Recall the last MOU was all but signed sealed and delivered before the MEC Reps were briefed.

When the MEC "receives"; resolutions regarding Scope, without taking action, even when it is simply a request to examine, it is an indicator of the prevailing sentiment.

PS: We need a lot more ranting.....

 

[michael707767]

I expect that the reps will be less inclined to follow the lead of 777 and 767ER captains who have apparently little interest in defending flying that is below their seniority number. Rant over.

It's not the reps I worry about. I thought that arrogant prick O"Malley could barely hide his disgust for the line pilots who wanted to know what is going on with scope. He seems like the kind of guy who will ignore any resolutions because he thinks he is smarter than the line pilots.

 

[General Lee]

Lee Moak's term will be up in another year and a half I believe. In either case, prior to section six negotiations. The remainder of his term will most likely focus on putting two pilot groups together, not negotiating scope.

Our pilot groups have changed and so have our priorities. Few are around who will sell everything for their precious DB promisary note. A larger percentage than ever see the RJ for what it is, replacement flying for the narrow bodied fleet. We've witnessed the absurdity of furloughing mainline pilots while the company replaces them with pilot puppy mill graduates at the DCI potfolio. We've witnessed the greed, pettiness and arrogance of some of DCI portfolio pilots when they attempted to leverage furloughed pilots for more scope concessions, while simultaneously suing to eliminate scope. Two recent scope related resolutions past at LEC 44 against the wishes of some entrenched MEC insiders, the last one overwhelmingly. The details of the resolutions aren't as important as the shot across the bow. It ought to serve as a wake up call. We have a different perspective then we've had in the past. With the LEC elections coming between now and Section six, I expect that the reps will be less inclined to follow the lead of 777 and 767ER captains who have apparently little interest in defending flying that is below their seniority number. Rant over.

I think I KNOW WHO I WILL BE VOTING FOR NEXT TIME AROUND......FDJ2 for President........OF THE WORLD. Amen!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It's not the reps I worry about. I thought that arrogant prick O"Malley could barely hide his disgust for the line pilots who wanted to know what is going on with scope. He seems like the kind of guy who will ignore any resolutions because he thinks he is smarter than the line pilots.

And he works at the bequest of the MEC and Moak!

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2,

When the MEC "receives"; resolutions regarding Scope, without taking action, even when it is simply a request to examine, it is an indicator of the prevailing sentiment.

PS: We need a lot more ranting.....

That sentiment will change. It's beginning to change as we speak. While some didn't want scope on the radar, it is now. Rants are good, but we need more than rants, we need activism, we need to attend LEC meetings and question our reps, demand answers and transparency, pass resolutions and let the powers that be know that we at least are not asleep at the switch.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Better yet, lets make sure that we get people in the electable positions that realize what is stake, when we use scope as bargaining credit.