Anderson to align capacity with demand

[Scope out RJ's]

Detoilet320=:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:
Oh, and detoilet. You're welcome for the better eqp, pay raises, bases, and overall QOL.
Now hold that skirt down, the wind must be really knocking at your back door. Time for a panty change!:laugh:

 

[licorice]

=nwaredtail;1833567][

It means instead of holding 330,747,777 Int'l Captain for our last ten years, 320 or 757/767 junior Captain is the best we could hold, while the reverse is true for the DAL folks. Sounds like a win for your former side. Funny how this little tidbit gets glossed over by pilots who think NWA guys did better, GMAFB.

Ok,OK I give up, we "won" on the seniority list...does that make you feel better? No glossing over it, in fact we stomped your a$$es on the seniority list...feeling even better? Anticipating a DOH merger, I can't imagine the gallons of drool generated as you voted overwhelmingly 87% for the merger.....but would loved to have seen the look in your eye as that celebratory, slobber-soaked cigar exploded in your face on Dec. 8, 2008.
..

Ummm, there has to be an opening on that seat and now there will be between 500-1000 more DAL pilots ahead of each NWA pilot bidding for that seat. Nice try though.

OK, OK..we were just trying to make you feel better! Yes, yes..there's hundreds and hundreds...even thousands of DAL guys younger and more senior than you who will forever block you from enjoying "premium" WB positions...I can't ignore reality any longer....You're right and I'm wrong, and in humiliating defeat, I extend an olive branch to you..can't we be friends now?

2500 NWA pilots lost their promised pension and the targeted DC plan was an attempt to get them near 50% (not 60% like the senior NWA pilots). It goes away now in exchange for 14%. A moot point. It has nothing to do will DAL S pilots. (hint, the world doesn't revolve around licorice boy)

OK, sorry, didn't mean to upset you...It just sounded like you might be mad at us because our DC treats everyone as a common, pathetic, working slug, and was not designed to keep the exceptionally deserving nwaredtail's rightful DC rate above everyone else's.

About 30-60% of NWA pilots break 80 hours and get premium pay, care to tell everyone how many DAL guys get greenslips, we were told less than 5%.

Yes, I'm glad you mentioned this.... in the merger scenario, another example of a far superior fNWA financial and philosophical principle...that of working for more hours at lower pay, thus achieving alleged "parity" with the myopic, dim-whitted, philosophically inept group who self-destuctively worked less hours for more pay... [/QUOTE]


OK, all fun and games and bullsh!tting aside, I'll close this as I've closed my previous posts (I think), with the idea that with all the b!tching from both sides, we are left with a funny feeling that an articulate Larry the Cable guy might describe as a "feeling or quality or a condition, an indication, that conveys certain information" about our merger, namely that it was "impartial, unprejudiced, just and honest, free from discrimination based on our own feelings or self-interest". Gosh, that last describes us to a "T", doesn't it!:beer:

 

[DTW320]

OK, sorry, didn't mean to upset you...It just sounded like you might be mad at us because our DC treats everyone as a common, pathetic, working slug, and was not designed to keep the exceptionally deserving nwaredtail's rightful DC rate above everyone else's.

Yeah, forgot to address that one earlier....you seem to have forgotten that a lot of NWA pilots still have a pretty decent frozen A plan. Your attempts to paint the recipients of the targeted DC plan as beneficiaries of some scam illustrates your cluelessness. The targeted DC plan is (was) an attempt to get those who didn't have much frozen pension to an amount equal to 50% FAE. Not even the 60% FAE of the original A plan. The NWA pilots whose targeted DC rates are higher than other NWA pilots are the ones whose A plans are hugely less than the ones getting less or zero from the DC plan. The FACT that many will go from 20% or so down to the DAL DC % (in what, like 3 more years?) only drives home the point that they will now not even have a chance at the 50% FAE amount the targeted plan was designed to produce. Yet another windfall for us right?

I understand it's confusing....heck, Puffdaddy even says in his post that he bets that there are more DAL pilots who had there pension terminated than NWA pilots who did. Well gosh Wally, you're right! Considering ZERO NWA pilots had their pension terminated. It was/is frozen. Big difference...but you guys have shown that numbers aint your strong suit.

Guess I won't be seein you guys over on the DALPA boards huh?

 

[DTW320]

Detoilet320=:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:
Oh, and detoilet. You're welcome for the better eqp, pay raises, bases, and overall QOL.
Now hold that skirt down, the wind must be really knocking at your back door. Time for a panty change!:laugh:

I said I'd check back on the children.......not on the creepy, fat, old guy who hangs out at the playground trying to talk to the children...

 

[licorice]

=DTW320;1833635

Wow. I obviously struck a nerve judging by the War & Peace dissertations given in the last 24 hours since I stopped by. Hadn't been here much at all in the last 6 months or so....glad (sad) to see that you guys are still on patrol like an 80 year old Japanese soldier still in the jungles of Guam or Saipan (DAL-S pilots please consult Google Earth now).

Speaks volumes about the strategic, economic, cultural, and political importance of those forgotten backwaters of WWII that only the elite, geographic cognoscenti of the world-girdling NWA would know their precise location...

Let's see, nwaredtail hit most of the major rebuttal points, thanks! Licorice, you're obviously smarter than and a bit less offensive than PuffDaddy (maybe you're one of those on the DALPA board...them fellers be s-m-a-r-t!!) but you lose me in your numbers. Redtail is correct. Relative seniority is expressed as a % of the entire list. Within 24 hours of the list coming out one of our guys had an app on his website that you input your number to and it spit out a chart showing your number and % position on the entire list for every year until age 65. From what we've seen of Delta Technology so far, DAL should hire him at triple his pilot pay rate. According to them "smart DAL-S guys" over on the DALPA boards, TravelNet sucks BTW. Their words. His website is the same one that emails you open trips in your category the second they hit the board and lists you on a jumpseat unattended while you're playing golf and DAL-S guys are queing up on the phone. Anyway, his lists and others clearly show that the average DAL-N pilot loses around 10 % relative seniority on the combined list, compared to the starting % at DCC, inside of 10 years. Now according to Pdiddy that doesn't matter because we could be extict tomorrow, which begs the question: if he really believes that, how sad is it that he is spending what could be his last day blathering away on Flight Info? Anyway, licorice, you should be able to understand that right? If a NWA guy was going to retire at 5% from the top of the list and now will retire at 15% down the list it = some big differences. PDiddy wants us to believe that it is purely a function of a new, bigger pilot group due to merger. That misses the point completely. Noone would say a word if it was as simply as that due to there being more pilots. The growth of the relative seniority disparity over the next 8 - 10 years, to the detriment of the NWA pilot and the GAIN of the DAL pilot, indicates one thing: DAL-S pilots capture and directly benefit from a large portion of the NWA retirements. That's thanks to the arbitrators. Like I've said many times, it is what it is and it's over. No one is "crying" about THAT. Find a post by me in the last 6 months complaining about the SLI. I'm responding to the 100% Grade A BS statement that NWA pilots received a "windfall" even though the numbers clearly show that the attrition on the NWA side mainly benefits the pre-merger DAL pilots....you know, the ones that think they got a screw job in the merger.

Smart DAL guys, in their words, travelnet sucks..? OK, I'll take your word for it. I have nothing to compare it with...

Yes, DTW, I acknowledge that I wouldn't be happy at all if 5% seniority suddenly became 15% seniority....in an amazing coincidence, that is exactly the % change what would have happened to me immediately had the list gone DOH. I understand, believe me, I do...

I agree that there are more 757/767 available to NWA guys due to the merger. I'll preface the next statement by saying that ALL of our payrates SUCK compared to what we ALL made a few years ago. But the 757/767/76ER that you guys gush about, pay a ridiculously small premium over the narrowbody domestic categories. That's where the argument that NWA guys have ALL these wonderful new WIDEBODIES to take advantage of falls flat for me. There is NO defensible reason at all for the huge disparity between 76ER pay and 767-400/A330 pay and we should have sent them back to the table over THAT precisely BECAUSE that 75/76ER category is so big! The 767ER International Widebody StratoCruiser pays a whopping 4% more than a 124 seat 737-700 and 8% more than a A319 (another 124 seat Delta airplane that somehow pays 4% less than a 73-700....another windfall for us NWA guys right?) Meanwhile, a 767-400/A330 pays 13% more than a 767ER. WTF? If all the additional 757's and 767's that NWA guys now have "access" to (there have to be vacancies first....noone gets bumped....something I have to point out on almost every DL jumpseat I ride when I'm told that the NWA guys are going to "take our widebody positions") paid the same as the 330/765 or even 8 or 9% more than the 737 then I would agre that it is a real benefit for NWA pilots to have more widebody seats! Who cares where it flies! That does not = QOL! I'll go on vacation to one of those places for QOL (just wrapping up over 30 days off myself from vacation awarded under those "horrendous" NWA work rules).

Well, at the risk of sounding knit-picking, I must point out that you compare DAL-S aircraft rates with other DAL-S aircraft..(theoretically none of your business since you didn't have those aircraft and therefore had nothing to do with establishing those rates) The super-premium 767ER international widebody stratocruiser, as it is routinely referred to, only pays 4% more than a 737-700/800 but by your own admission, pays 8% more than the A320, a DAL-N equivalent of the 737...You say above that it would be a real benefit if the ER paid 8 or 9% more...you have it, 8% more than a 737 equivalent...

I'll agree with Puffy that the problem with over 80 premium pay is that it encourages you to overwork, but having said that, the whole "grand scheme" more money thing is bogus too. I have a 747-400 FO friend who says that he made more W2 last year than his DAL 76ER Captain buddy. The ER Cap pointed it out to him over beers. I'll look forward to your freaking out and going ballistic shooting that one down over the next 10 pages. While we're at it, yes NWA pilots got a bigger hourly rate raise than DAL pilots since we had to be brought to parity. But I'm a little sick of hearing that DAL pilots got nothing out of this. You guys got raises and contract improvements too and furthermore whatever ANY of us got was not due to the generosity of DALPA..it was due to the fact that Delta Air Lines, Inc. needed this merger to happen and knew they had to "satisfy" the pilot group.

No shooting down there, no freaking out.....when two pilots are not compensated equally, in order for them to earn any given amount of money, one must work longer hours for less pay, and the other must work less hours for more pay..which would you rather be?

One last thing that can't go unnoticed...we got a windfall compared to the AAA/AWA arbitration? You CAN'T be serious! That's like saying that if my ski-boat motor goes out on me on Lake Lanier I got a windfall compared to those bastards on the Titanic! Please at least ATTEMPT to stay within reasonably comparable examples. Thanks! Now I'll check back on you children soon.....I KNOW you'll still be here. War & PeaceOUT

Great analogy!...Lake Lanier...an ATL resident? If so, congratulations on the merger and I understand your laissez faire attitude towards the merger, shouldn't be of much consequent to your lifestyle... .[/QUOTE]
Ok, good post DTW, a little knit picky but aren't we all...cheers:beer:

 

[licorice]

Yeah, forgot to address that one earlier....you seem to have forgotten that a lot of NWA pilots still have a pretty decent frozen A plan. Your attempts to paint the recipients of the targeted DC plan as beneficiaries of some scam illustrates your cluelessness. The targeted DC plan is (was) an attempt to get those who didn't have much frozen pension to an amount equal to 50% FAE. Not even the 60% FAE of the original A plan. The NWA pilots whose targeted DC rates are higher than other NWA pilots are the ones whose A plans are hugely less than the ones getting less or zero from the DC plan. The FACT that many will go from 20% or so down to the DAL DC % (in what, like 3 more years?) only drives home the point that they will now not even have a chance at the 50% FAE amount the targeted plan was designed to produce. Yet another windfall for us right?

I understand it's confusing....heck, Puffdaddy even says in his post that he bets that there are more DAL pilots who had there pension terminated than NWA pilots who did. Well gosh Wally, you're right! Considering ZERO NWA pilots had their pension terminated. It was/is frozen. Big difference...but you guys have shown that numbers aint your strong suit.

Guess I won't be seein you guys over on the DALPA boards huh?

Dang, just when I was starting to like you, DTW you go and poke fun. We had the targeted plan, we know all about it, we're not clueless, you're losing it, tough sh!t, we're just having fun with you, get over it.

I'll believe your superior math prowess if you can answer this common math problem: what does e raised to the i pi power equal?

 

[Superpilot92]

this thread just reminds me why i dont come on Flight Info much anymore, thanks for the reminder children.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

I said I'd check back on the children.......not on the creepy, fat, old guy who hangs out at the playground trying to talk to the children...

You describe your man love so well, it's scary! I bet Captains are real scared to fly with you.
Now go on Nancy, your skirt is hiking up real high, go ahead and pull it down. Your man will appreciate it!
Oh, and detoilet, just for you----------->:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

 

[ACL65PILOT]

this thread just reminds me why i dont come on Flight Info much anymore, thanks for the reminder children.

That was my thought exactly!

 

[KCPilot]

If you are junior now, you are probably going to fly a narrowbody, which is something that probably should have happened anyway. If you started on a widebody, you hit the jackpot, but that may not last.

I am sick and tired of hearing this crap! If you want my ER seat you senior guys could have had it, but then you guys would have to commute to NYC and most do not want to so STFU! I got hired all happy to be flying and planned on flying the MD88 but I got a bonus, an ER and now I'm the bad guy? Please explain how that works? Now with this merger mess I'm looking at finding another job for 3 or so years till these 60 year old grandpas retire and let myself and the others around me get on with our lives. So in the big picture, you real senior guys will be working till you die while monkey boy is paying me with gov't cheese to stay home. Hope it's worth it!

 

[PuffDriver]

Wow. I obviously struck a nerve judging by the War & Peace dissertations given in the last 24 hours since I stopped by. Hadn't been here much at all in the last 6 months or so....glad (sad) to see that you guys are still on patrol like an 80 year old Japanese soldier still in the jungles of Guam or Saipan (DAL-S pilots please consult Google Earth now).

Let's see, nwaredtail hit most of the major rebuttal points, thanks! Licorice, you're obviously smarter than and a bit less offensive than PuffDaddy (maybe you're one of those on the DALPA board...them fellers be s-m-a-r-t!!) but you lose me in your numbers. Redtail is correct. Relative seniority is expressed as a % of the entire list. Within 24 hours of the list coming out one of our guys had an app on his website that you input your number to and it spit out a chart showing your number and % position on the entire list for every year until age 65. From what we've seen of Delta Technology so far, DAL should hire him at triple his pilot pay rate. According to them "smart DAL-S guys" over on the DALPA boards, TravelNet sucks BTW. Their words. His website is the same one that emails you open trips in your category the second they hit the board and lists you on a jumpseat unattended while you're playing golf and DAL-S guys are queing up on the phone. Anyway, his lists and others clearly show that the average DAL-N pilot loses around 10 % relative seniority on the combined list, compared to the starting % at DCC, inside of 10 years. Now according to Pdiddy that doesn't matter because we could be extict tomorrow, which begs the question: if he really believes that, how sad is it that he is spending what could be his last day blathering away on Flight Info? Anyway, licorice, you should be able to understand that right? If a NWA guy was going to retire at 5% from the top of the list and now will retire at 15% down the list it = some big differences. PDiddy wants us to believe that it is purely a function of a new, bigger pilot group due to merger. That misses the point completely. Noone would say a word if it was as simply as that due to there being more pilots. The growth of the relative seniority disparity over the next 8 - 10 years, to the detriment of the NWA pilot and the GAIN of the DAL pilot, indicates one thing: DAL-S pilots capture and directly benefit from a large portion of the NWA retirements. That's thanks to the arbitrators. Like I've said many times, it is what it is and it's over. No one is "crying" about THAT. Find a post by me in the last 6 months complaining about the SLI. I'm responding to the 100% Grade A BS statement that NWA pilots received a "windfall" even though the numbers clearly show that the attrition on the NWA side mainly benefits the pre-merger DAL pilots....you know, the ones that think they got a screw job in the merger.

I agree that there are more 757/767 available to NWA guys due to the merger. I'll preface the next statement by saying that ALL of our payrates SUCK compared to what we ALL made a few years ago. But the 757/767/76ER that you guys gush about, pay a ridiculously small premium over the narrowbody domestic categories. That's where the argument that NWA guys have ALL these wonderful new WIDEBODIES to take advantage of falls flat for me. There is NO defensible reason at all for the huge disparity between 76ER pay and 767-400/A330 pay and we should have sent them back to the table over THAT precisely BECAUSE that 75/76ER category is so big! The 767ER International Widebody StratoCruiser pays a whopping 4% more than a 124 seat 737-700 and 8% more than a A319 (another 124 seat Delta airplane that somehow pays 4% less than a 73-700....another windfall for us NWA guys right?) Meanwhile, a 767-400/A330 pays 13% more than a 767ER. WTF? If all the additional 757's and 767's that NWA guys now have "access" to (there have to be vacancies first....noone gets bumped....something I have to point out on almost every DL jumpseat I ride when I'm told that the NWA guys are going to "take our widebody positions") paid the same as the 330/765 or even 8 or 9% more than the 737 then I would agre that it is a real benefit for NWA pilots to have more widebody seats! Who cares where it flies! That does not = QOL! I'll go on vacation to one of those places for QOL (just wrapping up over 30 days off myself from vacation awarded under those "horrendous" NWA work rules).

I'll agree with Puffy that the problem with over 80 premium pay is that it encourages you to overwork, but having said that, the whole "grand scheme" more money thing is bogus too. I have a 747-400 FO friend who says that he made more W2 last year than his DAL 76ER Captain buddy. The ER Cap pointed it out to him over beers. I'll look forward to your freaking out and going ballistic shooting that one down over the next 10 pages. While we're at it, yes NWA pilots got a bigger hourly rate raise than DAL pilots since we had to be brought to parity. But I'm a little sick of hearing that DAL pilots got nothing out of this. You guys got raises and contract improvements too and furthermore whatever ANY of us got was not due to the generosity of DALPA..it was due to the fact that Delta Air Lines, Inc. needed this merger to happen and knew they had to "satisfy" the pilot group.

One last thing that can't go unnoticed...we got a windfall compared to the AAA/AWA arbitration? You CAN'T be serious! That's like saying that if my ski-boat motor goes out on me on Lake Lanier I got a windfall compared to those bastards on the Titanic! Please at least ATTEMPT to stay within reasonably comparable examples. Thanks! Now I'll check back on you children soon.....I KNOW you'll still be here. War & PeaceOUT.

Believe it or not, I actually agree with a lot of your post.

I think that the new travelnet sucks.

I disagree with the first boldface. If the 10% is what the number is, it is what it is. While YOU may not be bitching about it, your compadres keep on bitching about it. While you think that Delta pilots hover around this board like vultures waiting for the carcass, I submit that your compadres do it more. Regardless, if indeed that number is 10% less, then indeed it is more than offset by the sheer number of increased aircraft that Delta brought to the table. So you retire#11 instead of #10, or #110 instead of #100. The extra airplanes brought to the mix offset that. That is what I am saying, and it is correct. If it had been a true relative seniority instead of what it was, it would have been much worse. Couple in the fact that you indeed got "credit" for retirements, also unprecedented, while Delta got no credit for retirements down the road and you have nothing to gripe about. Yes, everyone retires.

I agree that all the pay rates suck. No doubt. Delta brought higher pay rates. Delta brought better work rules. You brought your pensions. To say that DALPA did not bring them is in error. The Delta MEC drover this merger from day 1. To say otherwise is incorrect. It doesn't really matter anyway. So your 747 buddy made more than an ER captain. BFD. I can probably make more than a reserve ER captain as an 88 captain. So what? What point are you trying to prove/ Mine? That staying senior on an airplane may be the way to go? Sorry, but that's outside the discussion, and to suggest otherwise that rates aren't the comparative measure is, let me see how you put it, 100% Grade A BS statement.

You give yourself too much credit about stirring up the hornets nest. It was stirred up well before you got here.

You indeed have access to well over twice the widebodies. Vacancy or none, the monkey has been turned loose in the banana garden, with no fences around the trees. He can't climb them all at once, but will get to them. While you like to try and convince people that it does not matter where you lay over since the a/c does not pay much more than a 737-700, I will counter that #1 the airplane is more productive than the -700. You can finish your month in 3-6 less days on an ER vs a -700. #2 our most senior trips are to places such as Nice, Rome, Frankfurt, etc while the more junior places are to africa. So, indeed, it DOES matter where you layover in the grand scheme. Suggesting anything less is a "100% Grade A BS statement".

I never said that Delta pilots got nothing out of this. I said that we got a lot less than NWA did.

NWA pilots are indeed bitching about the list even today. The 10% number IS bitching about the SLI. To suggest otherwise is a "100% Grade A BS statement."

If a larger displacement off the 747-400 occurs, and I believe it will when they get parked, post SOC, indeed all positions theoretically could get filled by NWA pilots. Although I am sure you do not mention this when you jumpseat on Delta aircraft, as you educate us dumb hicks, it nonetheless is a completely true statement. All NWA pilots could theoretically flow to pre-soc DAL aircraft and bases.

On second thought, other than travelnet sucking and aircraft paying less than they should, we don't agree on much, and you are wrong about pretty much everything else. Perhaps you should re-disappear and gather up some more "100% Grade A BS."

 

[PuffDriver]

this thread just reminds me why i dont come on Flight Info much anymore, thanks for the reminder children.

Yeah, and you are one of the main contributers on FI. Connect the dots.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Why don't you scared little pansies spare FlightInfo the excess trolling and take this to your company's (real name) union board...that is unless you little boys don't really mean anything you've posted, and just enjoy creating trolling havoc like the wusses you so blatantly are by doing so.

Spare US ALL the DL drama queenies that clutter up this board FAR MORE than the AWA/USair mess. How pathetic, pilots always seem to fall right into mgt's trap and fight each other.

Have fun destroying your company morale, which will in turn destroy your company.

LOTS of other jobs out there, right?

 

[Superpilot92]

Yeah, and you are one of the main contributers on FI. Connect the dots.

irrelevet because i dont post on here near as much as i used to and when i did it was never constant flaming like others do. when i do come on this site its to attempt a decent debate, However the number of flamebaiters has grown to the point that its nearly impossible to carry on a decent discussion, thus making this website pointless. Thanks for proving my point again

 

[Schwanker]

deltanet/travelnet SUCKS!!! Can someone pm me a 800# to list/check loads for non-revving? Thanks.

 

[poppi]

800 my delta for travelnet

 

[BORAT]

is anybody else having trouble logging onto the Delta Intraweb site today??? Everytime I try and log on it says something about too many concurrent users on the server...

 

[nwaredtail]

They are upgrading it and the software to an ELIAC. There is a message where you log on. What a POS system you folks have been using. Hopefully, the NWA IT folks are chopping at the bit to bring y'all up to this century.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

They are upgrading it and the software to an ELIAC. There is a message where you log on. What a POS system you folks have been using. Hopefully, the NWA IT folks are chopping at the bit to bring y'all up to this century.

Cut the "my squadron is better than your squadron" BS. You sound like a whiny little USair b!tch... just like many of the others the past couple pages.

I've used RADAR for years as well as TravelNet. I was skeptical when I first started using it but have come to like it more than RADAR (which I've used concurrently).

My only complaint is that you can't see the pass level that the riders are travelling on, but that doesn't particularly matter in the DL system since you choose whether or not to change to S2 only at check in.


The new TravelNet system is a now a brand new system with the combined operation. You're stupid if you don't think there will be any bugs.

 

[another cfii]

One of the "nice" feature I've seen so far is that they now differentiate active and retired employee in the standby list. It used to be combined, and you can't really tell if that guy with a 1968 hire date is in front of you or a retiree... Now it's a bit easier.

I expect to have a few more "meltdown" in a merger of this size. C'est la vie.