AMR Proposal Highlights

[tzskipper]

Show of solidarity

Just a thought...

As other pilot groups pressure the AA pilots to "draw a line in the sand" and maintain "full pay to the last day" in light of the company openers, I think now would be a good time for all MEC's and/or BOD (Swapa) to begin the process of working with their respective managements in drafting agreements offering preferential interviews/hiring for the AA pilot group.

This is where the rubber meets the road in the need to support each other when a group is under attack.

Btw, I believe the company is obviously setting the stage for a down and dirty negotiation. We have just seen what is behind door number one. Door number two will be the results of direct negotiations which will produce a document which is less painful than door number one. The company will then give the pilot group a choice; ratify door number two, or risk a successful 1113 petition by the company which implements door number one.

The next question that may be considered is the "right" of the pilot group to participate in "self help" should contractual changes be imposed unilaterally by the court. Most likely the judge would issue an injunction (subject to appeal), forcing employees back to work.

Some history from Congressional testimony:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...gvmKDw&usg=AFQjCNHv7BVGl8_559632VODShqENlBykQ

S

 

[ALGFLYR]

Is the pay that bad? What am I missing?

Currently AA does not have any aircraft on property that would be classified as group I or II... So this just puts a rate in place if they get some. They have Airbus aircraft on order, and any 319's would be group II.

It appears that there is no pay reduction for any aircraft currently on the property. (Granted, there are losses in other areas - but does anyone really think the pilots could get through the BK process without any losses?)

Group I CA would pay 119/hr top of scale. Group II CA would pay 139 TOS... That's still better than what US Air or United pays...

 

[Whine Lover]

" That's still better than what US Air or United pays..."

So, it's better to only be pissed upon... that shat upon.

Right?

 

[ackattacker]

Is the pay that bad? What am I missing?

Currently AA does not have any aircraft on property that would be classified as group I or II... So this just puts a rate in place if they get some. They have Airbus aircraft on order, and any 319's would be group II.

It appears that there is no pay reduction for any aircraft currently on the property. (Granted, there are losses in other areas - but does anyone really think the pilots could get through the BK process without any losses?)

Group I CA would pay 119/hr top of scale. Group II CA would pay 139 TOS... That's still better than what US Air or United pays...

They are setting the stage to be just like US Airways, where 99 seaters (E190's) are paid very low and everything smaller is flown by regional partners (CRJ900's etc). Perhaps this proposal is supposed to start lining things up to make a merger go more smoothly? If they did merge with somebody else (B6, LCC, DAL) they would suddenly acquire a lot of regional feed above 50 seats. When United and Continental merged the differences in scope was a major bone of contention.

 

[HalinTexas]

Just a thought...

As other pilot groups pressure the AA pilots to "draw a line in the sand" and maintain "full pay to the last day" in light of the company openers, I think now would be a good time for all MEC's and/or BOD (Swapa) to begin the process of working with their respective managements in drafting agreements offering preferential interviews/hiring for the AA pilot group.

This is where the rubber meets the road in the need to support each other when a group is under attack.

Btw, I believe the company is obviously setting the stage for a down and dirty negotiation. We have just seen what is behind door number one. Door number two will be the results of direct negotiations which will produce a document which is less painful than door number one. The company will then give the pilot group a choice; ratify door number two, or risk a successful 1113 petition by the company which implements door number one.

The next question that may be considered is the "right" of the pilot group to participate in "self help" should contractual changes be imposed unilaterally by the court. Most likely the judge would issue an injunction (subject to appeal), forcing employees back to work.

Some history from Congressional testimony:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...gvmKDw&usg=AFQjCNHv7BVGl8_559632VODShqENlBykQ

S

Ditto.

Remember, this is an opener, and most likely what they would seek with an 1113(c). They have to show good faith negotiating effort and the APA would have to show little faith effort to get that from the judge.

Hold fast to scope.

The pensions are most likely history. The key is how much the Co. is going to have to pay, and how much of that comes out of the concessionary agreement forthcoming.

 

[shroomwell]

It is too bad for AA. As a paying passenger I used to try to fly AA, since the bankruptcy I have had a couple of bad experiences and now try to find another carrier. I don't know how bad it is, but I am sure that business is going to go down a bit (10%) because of the bankruptcy.

 

[ALGFLYR]

" That's still better than what US Air or United pays..."

So, it's better to only be pissed upon... that shat upon.

Right?

So do you think the pilots can come out of BK with pay raises and contract improvments?? And they won't have to give anything up??

 

[ALGFLYR]

They are setting the stage to be just like US Airways, where 99 seaters (E190's) are paid very low and everything smaller is flown by regional partners (CRJ900's etc). Perhaps this proposal is supposed to start lining things up to make a merger go more smoothly? If they did merge with somebody else (B6, LCC, DAL) they would suddenly acquire a lot of regional feed above 50 seats. When United and Continental merged the differences in scope was a major bone of contention.

Those were my thoughts too... It seems this BK proposal starts trimming their contract to closely match the US Airways contract they exited BK with...

 

[dicko]

No line holder monthly guarantee? Sick time at 60% if more than two events per year? Up to 88 seats outsourced? They must be joking. Tell them to %&*^ off.

Ironic. There's a photo of you smiling happily at the signing of our last CBA.

- 84 Seat RJ's outsourced.

- Sick time re-payed into sick bank at 66% after a number of events.

 

[WSurf]

Well Trans States has a home now for it Mitsubishi RJs they ordered

 

[8sugarsugar]

There was a time American flew 86 seat Fokkers and had 117 seat 717's from TWA. Too bad Skywest or Republic will be able to purchase (or modify current) 86 seat RJ's and do this flying for American now. It's like watching the Poles melt into the ocean.

In less than 10 years, you will see the skywests and the republics operating a320s and 737s. Europe's RyanAir 737 FO make 27,000/year

there will only be a pilot shortage at those levels

 

[humveedriver]

Yes, 2 hugely successful commercial airliners.....not.

The biggest mistake in the restructuring would be to allow the same a$$clowns that made those type of fleet decisions to be responsible for developing the new strategic plan.

I don't think te E190 or CRJ 900 was around back then. I think most of us here would like to see 86 seat aircraft flown by mainline. I think it should be 70 seats or greater, but that's just my opinion. I really don't care what aircraft the companies buy, as long as we stop shrinking mainline carrier jobs and replacing them with regional aircraft and wages.

Sadly, I suspect many pilots starting out now, no longer view flying for a major as a smart choice. Not when they can have better seniority flying for a regional and have their equipment and salaries grow at a slower pace. But with the leverage of turning the industry in a domestic/regional vs major/international environment. Come on 12 DEC, hurry up already!

 

[humveedriver]

In less than 10 years, you will see the skywests and the republics operating a320s and 737s. Europe's RyanAir 737 FO make 27,000/year

there will only be a pilot shortage at those levels

completely possible.

 

[Whine Lover]

So do you think the pilots can come out of BK with pay raises and contract improvments?? And they won't have to give anything up??

Uh..Yeah.

That's EXACTLY what I was trying to get across.

( Once again we see just how sharp pilots are when it comes to abstract thought. )



YKW

 

[TWA Dude]

So do you think the pilots can come out of BK with pay raises and contract improvments??

You choose not to accept responsibility for the fact that USAirways could've had a post-BK-improved contract in 2007. The East squandered it during their tantrum and the rest of the industry noticed.