AMR Proposal Highlights

[CaribPilot]

I totally just vomited all over my laptop, and this plastic hotel desk that is painted to look like wood....totally.

 

[PCL_128]

- 84 Seat RJ's outsourced.

Actually, it was 86 seats. Of course, you missed the part about only allowing 15 of them, and it was only done because it was necessary in order to achieve the holding company scope, which was far more important. We had none prior to this CBA, and SWA would have been able to simply take our assets and toss us aside if we didn't have it. Kind of an important item.

- Sick time re-payed into sick bank at 66% after a number of events.

Well, that's just a gross distortion. Sick time always pays at 100% at AirTran, no matter how many events you have. If you get over 5 events in a year, then your accrual reduces to 4 hours from 6 until an event drops off, but if you have 150 hours of sick time, you can use all of it at 100% pay, even if you have dozens of events. The company is also prohibited from asking for a doctor's note or instituting any sort of sick policy. Definitely not comparable to AMR's draconian proposal.

 

[outerlimits]

Actually, it was 86 seats. Of course, you missed the part about only allowing 15 of them, and it was only done because it was necessary in order to achieve the holding company scope, which was far more important. We had none prior to this CBA, and SWA would have been able to simply take our assets and toss us aside if we didn't have it. Kind of an important item.



Well, that's just a gross distortion. Sick time always pays at 100% at AirTran, no matter how many events you have. If you get over 5 events in a year, then your accrual reduces to 4 hours from 6 until an event drops off, but if you have 150 hours of sick time, you can use all of it at 100% pay, even if you have dozens of events. The company is also prohibited from asking for a doctor's note or instituting any sort of sick policy. Definitely not comparable to AMR's draconian proposal.

PLC, Thanks,


Thanks for all your hard work at ALPA. It is guys like you that make ALPA the machine it is.

You make me proud to wear the pin.

 

[Abernathy]

Did I read correctly that AMR's proposal included getting rid of a monthly guarantee for line holders? If so, the argument can be made that this violates labor laws unless they then agreed to pay the pilots an hourly rate for all time on duty not just behind the yoke.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Did I read correctly that AMR's proposal included getting rid of a monthly guarantee for line holders? If so, the argument can be made that this violates labor laws unless they then agreed to pay the pilots an hourly rate for all time on duty not just behind the yoke.

You can make that argument...but you would be wrong..

 

[Sy-bill]

Did I read correctly that AMR's proposal included getting rid of a monthly guarantee for line holders? If so, the argument can be made that this violates labor laws unless they then agreed to pay the pilots an hourly rate for all time on duty not just behind the yoke.

I agree that you don't have an argument. And its not that they want to only pay someone 20 hours for their work for a month. It is on the other end. They do not want the 68 hour scheduling limit. They now want FAR's which they will likely get along with PBS.

 

[i fly boxes]

Is the pay that bad? What am I missing?

Currently AA does not have any aircraft on property that would be classified as group I or II... So this just puts a rate in place if they get some. They have Airbus aircraft on order, and any 319's would be group II.

It appears that there is no pay reduction for any aircraft currently on the property. (Granted, there are losses in other areas - but does anyone really think the pilots could get through the BK process without any losses?)

Group I CA would pay 119/hr top of scale. Group II CA would pay 139 TOS... That's still better than what US Air or United pays...

Spirit has better pay as their contract progresses

 

[Guppiedriver]

400 furloughs is about 4% of the pilots. With PBS they will roughly have 18% more pilots than will be needed.

1500+ furloughs is what is on the horizon. Fortunately retirements start back up in another 10 months.

PBS alone, will not reduce head count.

 

[Bringupthebird]

With PBS they will roughly have 18% more pilots than will be needed.

Tell me exactly how many pilots have ever been furloughed after implementing PBS.

PBS works based on the contracted work rules. It makes scheduling easier for both sides, but it cannot jam time on anyone's line in actual practice. The machine will bog down and be unable to find adequate solutions if you try to over-optimize.

Concentrate on work rules and PBS will take care of itself.

 

[i fly boxes]

Year 5 of the contract 186 year 12 airbus captain for spirit

 

[The Victors]

Is the pay that bad? What am I missing?

Currently AA does not have any aircraft on property that would be classified as group I or II... So this just puts a rate in place if they get some. They have Airbus aircraft on order, and any 319's would be group II.

It appears that there is no pay reduction for any aircraft currently on the property. (Granted, there are losses in other areas - but does anyone really think the pilots could get through the BK process without any losses?)

Group I CA would pay 119/hr top of scale. Group II CA would pay 139 TOS... That's still better than what US Air or United pays...

The pay rates you quote are a Fu*%king joke! That's what you're missing.

 

[ASADFW7]

Mathematics can figure out if pilot productivity goes from 65 hours a month to 85 hours a month, that a large percentage of pilots would not be required to staff the block hours. Also blocking aircraft together in the same pay rate reduces the amount of pilots transitioning between aircraft. As well if a percentage of flying gets contracted out that was once flown at mainline that the pilot work force will be reduced. All of these are very sensitive subjects to every pilot here. Please continue to use professionalism in regards to your fellow pilots that are affected. Thanks.

 

[ASADFW7]

Please no creative swearing, just let the word get filtered out.

 

[Sy-bill]

PBS alone, will not reduce head count.

In my post I failed to mention the change from a scheduled max of 68 hours to FAR maximums along with PBS.

PBS alone does not change a large amount of a head count.

 

[The Victors]

sorry. no worries. That attitude of "I'd fly big shinny jets for that pay" really gets me fired up sometimes.

 

[lookin4better]

It may be better to end the company than to let the 88 seater get into the hands of the teenagers...just sayin.

+1!!!!!

No doubt that some of those young ones that can't see beyond next week are frothing at the mouth to fly E-175's for AE/AX.

 

[nwaf16dude]

Tell me exactly how many pilots have ever been furloughed after implementing PBS.

PBS works based on the contracted work rules. It makes scheduling easier for both sides, but it cannot jam time on anyone's line in actual practice. The machine will bog down and be unable to find adequate solutions if you try to over-optimize.

Concentrate on work rules and PBS will take care of itself.

I agree with what you've stated here. PBS is will not, in and of itself, reduce headcount much. However, PBS is not cheap, and the company will not spend the money to implement it if they don't gain some efficiencies from it. Reserves required will definitely be reduced.

 

[dugan jones]

please no creative swearing, just let the word get filtered out.

********************. ******************** ********************

 

[dugan jones]

********************. ******************** ********************

I guess the filtering does work, ain't that some ********************

 

[outerlimits]

+1!!!!!

No doubt that some of those young ones that can't see beyond next week are frothing at the mouth to fly E-175's for AE/AX.

What color is the sky in your world ? The flying is only outsourced if the Mainline carriers allow it.

It should be one seniority list per airline.