American Eagle ..HIRING....

[pipejockey]

All you hatters can go suck it for all i care!

Well, not only am I a hatter, I am a MAD HATTER!! Mad at this scumbag, walmart industry, and loathsome of the people who run it!

With the job market for pilots dead like it is we have to stay positive and make do with what we have. That is what im doing...if you cant, well good luck to your family.

Well I thank you for the well wishes, but I don't have a family. I can't seem to find a woman that wants to have anything to do with a guy that puts up with being involved in this black hole of an industry with no future and continues to whore himself out like a common street walker.

My flying was funded by a car accident i was involved with, i got alittle bit of money out of the deal and fueling at the airport. I did most of my flying at a flying club which was a HUGE help. I fueled and networked my way into king airs/citations..built some time and went to instruct. Shortly after that i flew cargo for alittle bit before comming to eagle. My "toy" car, ive had since i was 16. Which i worked at a home depot to afford. My airport car i bought years ago, my truck is almost paid off...That is my short story. I probably shouldnt have said anything though since you seem to know just about everything about regional airline pilot pay and what we can afford.

Seems like you worked hard for this regional FO job. Yet you seem content knowing you have 10 years before upgrading and about 12 years before having even the slightest possibility of moving on to a major airline. When I read how satisfied many of you are, I become extremely frustrated knowing that you will get no where in contract negotiations when management can throw your very own posts in your face. After all, why pay a livable, professional wage when so many of you are quite content? Nothing will change until a pilot group grows some balls and takes their negotiations all the way to self help (strike) as Comair did in 2001. And don't give me this nonsense about difficult economic times. Management will always have an excuse from here on out. Now they use the economy as an excuse to keep wages low, and as the economy improves, oil prices will skyrocket as they did right before the economic collapse in 2008. This industry will never, ever turn sustainable profits. And thats just how management wants it. The executives will still get their multimillion dollar salaries and bonuses and management will still be getting their upper 6 figure salaries and bonuses. All the while they hear about how satisfied and thankful their pilots are just to have a job. We are all doomed in this industry. It has never been so bad in it's history.

HEY PIPEJOCKEY.....First of all, you gotta get off that PIPE, its turning your brain into MUSH....Look due and LISTEN UP...I HAVE PAID MY DUES.....YOU GOT THAT.....I spent 4-5y as an FO

WOW!!! 4-5 years? How did you ever manage?? Seriously man, don't ever say that to one of your 10 year FO's unless you want to take a fist to the face!! Your statement shows just how out of touch you are with reality. And it is a story I have heard from several Eagle FO's I have spoken with about the CA's over there. There are hundreds over there that could have gotten hired by a major carrier way back in the late 90s to 2001 but they chose flow-through that never happened. Which made movement painfully slow over there. Now as the time approaches where it looks like at least 250 or so of them will get a spot at AA not to mention an additional 300 on top of that in a few years, they all moan and groan and say that can't afford to go over. Now they will be continuing this stagnation at Eagle forever! Yes forever! Because by the time they retire an make way for some FO's to upgrade, many of these FO's will now be near or over 40 years old and by the time they get the PIC time needed to get the hell out, they will be too old and end up career regional pilots.

My advice for people considering interviewing at Eagle is to RUN!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!! And steer clear of there. Unless you are under 30, you will have absolutely no chance of getting the PIC needed to go to a major airline before you are nearing mid 40's in age. This isn't opinion, it's fact! Now if the nearly 600 CA's at Eagle who have AA numbers are required to abide by the decision they willingly made when choosing an AA number, then in a few years when retirements begin again at AA, within a couple years after that they will all be gone. But that isn't going to happen. When in the history of this profession did an outcome that would benefit the MAJORITY of the pilot group, not get shot down by what benefited the top 20% of the pilot group.

 

[jetjam619]

OKKK...ur a MAD HATTER...fine.......but tell ur story to the furloughed guy with a family to have an oppurtunity to provide food on the table or save his house.....I dont think he'll listen to you....

 

[pipejockey]

OKKK...ur a MAD HATTER...fine.......but tell ur story to the furloughed guy with a family to have an oppurtunity to provide food on the table or save his house.....I dont think he'll listen to you....

A 1st year regional fo job doesn't really pay anymore than unemployment. A regional fo job also is not going to save a guys house if his situation is that dire. Besides, if a regional FO has a house, it is not, I repeat NOT being paid for on a regional fo's salary anyway. Why not just get a job at the local department store and actually earn a wage that is appropriate for the work one does there. I mean hell, all you have to do is have half a brain and you promptly become some sort of management puke earning over 50 grand at the least! Plus you are home every night.

The average worker works 40 hours a week with 1 hour roundtrip drive from home. That's 45 hours a week or 180 hours a month away from home. The average 4 on 3 off line at a regional airline is about 300 hours away from home per month and that doesn't even include the drive time or worse yet, if you are a commuter, all the time spent commuting.

I wish there was someone like myself to shock me into reality back in the 90's when all I wanted to do was to become an airline pilot. It was all I dreamed about. But I knew no one in the industry and had to find out myself the hard way. Which now includes no chance of trying to actually make it in another line of work. Sometimes by the time you realize you went down the wrong path in life, you can no longer find your way out. Please new guys, find people that are not happy with this profession and take what they say to heart. Don't just seek out the happy little campers, because there is another side to the story. If I had just had the reality of it all rammed down my throat when I was getting into this, I may have made a far better career choice. But of course when I got into this back in the 90's, things were far different, and actually looked to be an acceptable career. But today?? The writing has been on the wall for nearly 10 years. Don't ruin your life kids. Run for your lives!!!!

 

[filejw]

Well, not only am I a hatter, I am a MAD HATTER!! Mad at this scumbag, walmart industry, and loathsome of the people who run it!



Well I thank you for the well wishes, but I don't have a family. I can't seem to find a woman that wants to have anything to do with a guy that puts up with being involved in this black hole of an industry with no future and continues to whore himself out like a common street walker.




Seems like you worked hard for this regional FO job. Yet you seem content knowing you have 10 years before upgrading and about 12 years before having even the slightest possibility of moving on to a major airline. When I read how satisfied many of you are, I become extremely frustrated knowing that you will get no where in contract negotiations when management can throw your very own posts in your face. After all, why pay a livable, professional wage when so many of you are quite content? Nothing will change until a pilot group grows some balls and takes their negotiations all the way to self help (strike) as Comair did in 2001. And don't give me this nonsense about difficult economic times. Management will always have an excuse from here on out. Now they use the economy as an excuse to keep wages low, and as the economy improves, oil prices will skyrocket as they did right before the economic collapse in 2008. This industry will never, ever turn sustainable profits. And thats just how management wants it. The executives will still get their multimillion dollar salaries and bonuses and management will still be getting their upper 6 figure salaries and bonuses. All the while they hear about how satisfied and thankful their pilots are just to have a job. We are all doomed in this industry. It has never been so bad in it's history.



WOW!!! 4-5 years? How did you ever manage?? Seriously man, don't ever say that to one of your 10 year FO's unless you want to take a fist to the face!! Your statement shows just how out of touch you are with reality. And it is a story I have heard from several Eagle FO's I have spoken with about the CA's over there. There are hundreds over there that could have gotten hired by a major carrier way back in the late 90s to 2001 but they chose flow-through that never happened. Which made movement painfully slow over there. Now as the time approaches where it looks like at least 250 or so of them will get a spot at AA not to mention an additional 300 on top of that in a few years, they all moan and groan and say that can't afford to go over. Now they will be continuing this stagnation at Eagle forever! Yes forever! Because by the time they retire an make way for some FO's to upgrade, many of these FO's will now be near or over 40 years old and by the time they get the PIC time needed to get the hell out, they will be too old and end up career regional pilots.

My advice for people considering interviewing at Eagle is to RUN!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!! And steer clear of there. Unless you are under 30, you will have absolutely no chance of getting the PIC needed to go to a major airline before you are nearing mid 40's in age. This isn't opinion, it's fact! Now if the nearly 600 CA's at Eagle who have AA numbers are required to abide by the decision they willingly made when choosing an AA number, then in a few years when retirements begin again at AA, within a couple years after that they will all be gone. But that isn't going to happen. When in the history of this profession did an outcome that would benefit the MAJORITY of the pilot group, not get shot down by what benefited the top 20% of the pilot group.

So why do you stay in this business ?????

 

[no1pilot2000]

If you feel your flying qualifications meet or exceed American Eagle's pilot hiring standards, then it would be to your advantage to apply. If they call you for an interview, it would be to your advantage to at least attend the job interview. In the end, if they offer you a job, evaluate your options at that time and take the actions that are right for YOU.

 

[bobs98tlr]

Well, not only am I a hatter, I am a MAD HATTER!! Mad at this scumbag, walmart industry, and loathsome of the people who run it!



Well I thank you for the well wishes, but I don't have a family. I can't seem to find a woman that wants to have anything to do with a guy that puts up with being involved in this black hole of an industry with no future and continues to whore himself out like a common street walker.




Seems like you worked hard for this regional FO job. Yet you seem content knowing you have 10 years before upgrading and about 12 years before having even the slightest possibility of moving on to a major airline. When I read how satisfied many of you are, I become extremely frustrated knowing that you will get no where in contract negotiations when management can throw your very own posts in your face. After all, why pay a livable, professional wage when so many of you are quite content? Nothing will change until a pilot group grows some balls and takes their negotiations all the way to self help (strike) as Comair did in 2001. And don't give me this nonsense about difficult economic times. Management will always have an excuse from here on out. Now they use the economy as an excuse to keep wages low, and as the economy improves, oil prices will skyrocket as they did right before the economic collapse in 2008. This industry will never, ever turn sustainable profits. And thats just how management wants it. The executives will still get their multimillion dollar salaries and bonuses and management will still be getting their upper 6 figure salaries and bonuses. All the while they hear about how satisfied and thankful their pilots are just to have a job. We are all doomed in this industry. It has never been so bad in it's history.



WOW!!! 4-5 years? How did you ever manage?? Seriously man, don't ever say that to one of your 10 year FO's unless you want to take a fist to the face!! Your statement shows just how out of touch you are with reality. And it is a story I have heard from several Eagle FO's I have spoken with about the CA's over there. There are hundreds over there that could have gotten hired by a major carrier way back in the late 90s to 2001 but they chose flow-through that never happened. Which made movement painfully slow over there. Now as the time approaches where it looks like at least 250 or so of them will get a spot at AA not to mention an additional 300 on top of that in a few years, they all moan and groan and say that can't afford to go over. Now they will be continuing this stagnation at Eagle forever! Yes forever! Because by the time they retire an make way for some FO's to upgrade, many of these FO's will now be near or over 40 years old and by the time they get the PIC time needed to get the hell out, they will be too old and end up career regional pilots.

My advice for people considering interviewing at Eagle is to RUN!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!! And steer clear of there. Unless you are under 30, you will have absolutely no chance of getting the PIC needed to go to a major airline before you are nearing mid 40's in age. This isn't opinion, it's fact! Now if the nearly 600 CA's at Eagle who have AA numbers are required to abide by the decision they willingly made when choosing an AA number, then in a few years when retirements begin again at AA, within a couple years after that they will all be gone. But that isn't going to happen. When in the history of this profession did an outcome that would benefit the MAJORITY of the pilot group, not get shot down by what benefited the top 20% of the pilot group.

Well you do make some good points. Somewhat. Just because i can live on what i make doesnt mean im content or agree with my wage. I know im worth more then $37k a year. When the time comes i will fight to get what im worth. Whats the point in being pissy and stressed now? Doesnt make any sence to me. I HATE flying with captains that have this type of attitude. If you dont like it get the F**K out of the seat. As far as airlines making money. Well since 1978 we've all known this, whats to say something wont change again to make them profitable? Please, try to be more optomistic. You might find yourself a great woman or guy. Whatever your into, not that i have a problem with that.

 

[TZtoSWA]

One other thing to ponder for civilian guys trying to build experience for a major ala the regionals. It will be exponentially competitive at the majors when they start hiring (as you all know). You are going to have to really shine on paper with a regional only background ( I know I was there once). Just getting the PIC time alone may not be enough in the hyper-competitive major job market. It may be necessary to have a check airman qual in order to get the interview call. When I sent out apps after upgrade at AEA I got little to no response. After I got the check airman qual. I got interview calls. There are precious few check airman positions available at Eagle and its very political to get one. Take that into account...

In the market applying for the majors in the next few years will be thousands of guys with thousands of hours and probably typed in the aircraft that the majors fly. There will also be your usual compliment of military pilots that have stacked up waiting to get out of active duty or flying guard or reserves. Couple this with the fact that many of the major airline and cargo companies hiring teams are run by or influenced by former military pilots and you begin to get the picture.

 

[pipejockey]

One other thing to ponder for civilian guys trying to build experience for a major ala the regionals. It will be exponentially competitive at the majors when they start hiring (as you all know). You are going to have to really shine on paper with a regional only background ( I know I was there once). Just getting the PIC time alone may not be enough in the hyper-competitive major job market. It may be necessary to have a check airman qual in order to get the interview call. When I sent out apps after upgrade at AEA I got little to no response. After I got the check airman qual. I got interview calls. There are precious few check airman positions available at Eagle and its very political to get one. Take that into account...

In the market applying for the majors in the next few years will be thousands of guys with thousands of hours and probably typed in the aircraft that the majors fly. There will also be your usual compliment of military pilots that have stacked up waiting to get out of active duty or flying guard or reserves. Couple this with the fact that many of the major airline and cargo companies hiring teams are run by or influenced by former military pilots and you begin to get the picture.

Very good post!! Let me put it another way, in my usual in your face kinda way...If your dream is to become a MAJOR airline pilot, forget it!! Only 10% to 20% of regional guys will ever make it. With more and more planes being put on regional airline property all the while they do flying once done by a major airline pilot. All these regional guys do is salivate over getting more 70-100 seaters and even general expansion of their regional carrier in hopes for that upgrade and PIC time that will allow them to go to a major, but this expansion at the regionals is at the very expense of the jobs they so highly covet. Every pilot should understand this. But I still see the twinkle in these guys eyes when they hear their regional is getting bigger planes or more planes. All it means to me is less jobs at the majors as a result.

 

[pipejockey]

So why do you stay in this business ?????

You've got a lot a balls to ask me a question like that! You might want to use those balls in contract negotiations and refuse to accept these horrid contracts management and our very own union are shoving down our throats. But instead you ask an ignorant question of someone who like many others in this industry, are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Are you going to give me the money it will take me to get an education in another field? And with corporate america destroying more and more professions that are worth having, the likelihood of actually finding one is slim All we can do is compel management in this industry to bring back earning power where it was just before 9/11. I didn't say bring it back to where it was just prior to de-regulation, I said right before 9/11. Seems to be a fair middle ground where no one side is clearly at an advantage over the other.

I am merely trying to encourage those who want to enter this profession, to seek another career path by relaying to them in as much gory detail as possible, my path from being a super excited 20 something wannabe airline pilot in the late 90's entering flight school who thanked God every day for being able to pursue my dream, to a bitter nearly 40 something who is too old to have a good chance at successfully changing careers at this point in my life. The vast majority of those entering the profession today will likely never be compensated or treated appropriately on this job.

BTW, it looks like you have 20,000 hours and are a widebody CA? Perhaps because you are at the top of the profession and based on having 20,000 hours, arrived there many years ago, you have lost touch with the reality of the industry and profession these days. After all, you show up to work 3 times a month, do your 1 leg overseas, sit there for a day, then do your 1 leg back all the while earning nearly 200 grand a year(which should be at least 300). You represent 5% of the airline pilot workforce. So why don't you keep quiet, go back to your boat, luxury home, luxury car, etc, because you sure as hell aint at work, and let me figure out how I'm going to pay my $500 rent next month.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Very good post!! Let me put it another way, in my usual in your face kinda way...If your dream is to become a MAJOR airline pilot, forget it!! Only 10% to 20% of regional guys will ever make it. With more and more planes being put on regional airline property all the while they do flying once done by a major airline pilot. All these regional guys do is salivate over getting more 70-100 seaters and even general expansion of their regional carrier in hopes for that upgrade and PIC time that will allow them to go to a major, but this expansion at the regionals is at the very expense of the jobs they so highly covet. Every pilot should understand this. But I still see the twinkle in these guys eyes when they hear their regional is getting bigger planes or more planes. All it means to me is less jobs at the majors as a result.

This is close.....but not quite true. Quals help, and you'd better have a space shuttle type rating, but EVERYTHING these days is about WHO YOU KNOW. IT'S 100%, TOTALLY, COMPLETELY, POLITICAL. If you have the right person pushing for you, all you have to do is meet the minimums and you will get an interview. A person who is the chief pilot's nephew, friend, etc, will ALWAYS get an interview over someone with a check airman type rating in the Concorde that has no internal rec. Almost 100% of getting the interview is about how much weight and how many guys you have pushing for you from the inside. Truth is, quals don't mean much anymore. I know way too many people that got hired at legacies with ZERO pic time because they knew the right person.

It's sad and horrible, but that's the way it is these days. To get a good job, you have to know somebody. Period. Quals don't mean that much anymore.

 

[TZtoSWA]

This is close.....but not quite true. Quals help, and you'd better have a space shuttle type rating, but EVERYTHING these days is about WHO YOU KNOW. IT'S 100%, TOTALLY, COMPLETELY, POLITICAL. If you have the right person pushing for you, all you have to do is meet the minimums and you will get an interview. A person who is the chief pilot's nephew, friend, etc, will ALWAYS get an interview over someone with a check airman type rating in the Concorde that has no internal rec. Almost 100% of getting the interview is about how much weight and how many guys you have pushing for you from the inside. Truth is, quals don't mean much anymore. I know way too many people that got hired at legacies with ZERO pic time because they knew the right person.

It's sad and horrible, but that's the way it is these days. To get a good job, you have to know somebody. Period. Quals don't mean that much anymore.

I disagree. I know guys who are VERY well connected who exceed the minimums that cannot get interviews because they aren't "competitive." Civilian background pilots must really shine on paper to get the call even with connections.

That being said, you are right, there is a definite good ole boy network at most majors that gets exploited for squadron buds, friends, and family. Most of the time, your avg. joe blow civilian background regional pilot is not one of the aforementioned. It is possible to get the call without an "insider" if you really look good on paper. It happened to me twice.

 

[snap145]

Very good post!! Let me put it another way, in my usual in your face kinda way...If your dream is to become a MAJOR airline pilot, forget it!! Only 10% to 20% of regional guys will ever make it. With more and more planes being put on regional airline property all the while they do flying once done by a major airline pilot. All these regional guys do is salivate over getting more 70-100 seaters and even general expansion of their regional carrier in hopes for that upgrade and PIC time that will allow them to go to a major, but this expansion at the regionals is at the very expense of the jobs they so highly covet. Every pilot should understand this. But I still see the twinkle in these guys eyes when they hear their regional is getting bigger planes or more planes. All it means to me is less jobs at the majors as a result.

10 to 20%...REALLY???? RU KIDDING ME??? dude...you are so warped on reality its not even funny....is it an ironic kick in the nuts everytime a new RJ comes on property somewhere only to delay all of us moving up? YES...but remember this and never forget it..RETIRMENTS...the age 65 rule just defyed the inevitable...there are currently not enough pilots flying for regional airlines to cover all the retirements in the next 10 to 15 years...yes that includes all GOJetters...in 10 years PIC will be irrelevant...the problem will be finding qualified pilots to fill the spots at the regionals if the 1500 hour rule goes into effect (which I personally hope it does)....10 to 20%???....dont listen to pipe jockey young ones...theres is still a little light at the end of the tunell

 

[pipejockey]

10 to 20%...REALLY???? RU KIDDING ME??? dude...you are so warped on reality its not even funny....

I'll tell you what is funny. It's that we feel the same exact way about each other in that we both think each other to be warped. I don't know the figures off hand, but with some research I'm sure this info can be found, but there were about half as many regional pilots in the 90's as there are today. The percentage of total airline pilots back in the 90's that flew for the majors was probably up to 80% of the airline pilot workforce. Now the ability of the major airlines to hire all the regional guys is history. There are just too many of them. There are currently over 4,000 furloughed pilots and this number is just for AA, UAL, US, AL, and CAL. I'd love to know how many pilots total, were hired by all of the legacy carriers, plus SWA, FedEx, and UPS since September of 2001. I bet not many more than 4,000. So in 10 years there has been little movement as a whole at the good career airlines yet the regionals have been booming. Welcome to the new airline B scale pay structure, but only you are stuck at that B scale for the rest of your career. Well at least for 80% of us.



And your argument about retirements beginning again in a few years as this professions panacea doesn't hold any water either. I heard the same line of total BS back when I was getting into this profession back in the late 90's. All the so-called experts like Kit Darby and his ilk said all we had to do was make it to a regional airline and our work was done! We would just have to spend maybe 5 years or so there and because of all the retirements of the Vietnam era guys the next 10 years, the major airlines would be scrambling to get us on property. Well what happened? All those guys are gone. Maybe a few were just shy of 60 when the age 65 rule was passed, but very few remain. All that arab dirtbag had to do was successfully blow up that NWA plane and management would be milking the effect of that for the next 5 years as they did with 9-11. We would have yet another wave of bankruptcies, paycuts, and further deterioration of our already pathetic contracts and workrules. If you don't think so, you are very naive. The precedent was set after 9-11.

Also, do you really think this industry will be able to expand as the economy improves? Do you remember what fuel prices were before the Bush economy collapsed? It was fuel prices that prompted the airlines to plan 10-15% cut backs in capacity before the economy tanked in mid to late 08 that in a lucky quirk of fate, helped the airlines weather the bad economy. It only stands to reason that as this economy improves, oil will continue to rise to 150 a barrel and beyond, limiting the industries ability just to add back the capacity it had in early 08. Not too mention our lackluster ATC system that still can't handle the industries current reduced capacity on VFR day, let alone when the weather is down to mins.

So it is you sir, who are warped on reality. The assertions you make are not supported by current conditions, or even any historical precedent that may have been set.

 

[TCAS]

... All that arab dirtbag had to do was successfully blow up that NWA plane and management would be milking the effect of that for the next 5 years as they did with 9-11. We would have yet another wave of bankruptcies, paycuts, and further deterioration of our already pathetic contracts and workrules. If you don't think so, you are very naive. The precedent was set after 9-11.

I do have to agree with you on that point...

But with that said, the rest of your post is pretty much conjecture. And this comes from somebody who's been in the biz over twenty years and has lived and seen all this bullcrap.

 

[snap145]

I'll tell you what is funny. It's that we feel the same exact way about each other in that we both think each other to be warped. I don't know the figures off hand, but with some research I'm sure this info can be found, but there were about half as many regional pilots in the 90's as there are today. The percentage of total airline pilots back in the 90's that flew for the majors was probably up to 80% of the airline pilot workforce. Now the ability of the major airlines to hire all the regional guys is history. There are just too many of them. There are currently over 4,000 furloughed pilots and this number is just for AA, UAL, US, AL, and CAL. I'd love to know how many pilots total, were hired by all of the legacy carriers, plus SWA, FedEx, and UPS since September of 2001. I bet not many more than 4,000. So in 10 years there has been little movement as a whole at the good career airlines yet the regionals have been booming. Welcome to the new airline B scale pay structure, but only you are stuck at that B scale for the rest of your career. Well at least for 80% of us.



And your argument about retirements beginning again in a few years as this professions panacea doesn't hold any water either. I heard the same line of total BS back when I was getting into this profession back in the late 90's. All the so-called experts like Kit Darby and his ilk said all we had to do was make it to a regional airline and our work was done! We would just have to spend maybe 5 years or so there and because of all the retirements of the Vietnam era guys the next 10 years, the major airlines would be scrambling to get us on property. Well what happened? All those guys are gone. Maybe a few were just shy of 60 when the age 65 rule was passed, but very few remain. All that arab dirtbag had to do was successfully blow up that NWA plane and management would be milking the effect of that for the next 5 years as they did with 9-11. We would have yet another wave of bankruptcies, paycuts, and further deterioration of our already pathetic contracts and workrules. If you don't think so, you are very naive. The precedent was set after 9-11.

Also, do you really think this industry will be able to expand as the economy improves? Do you remember what fuel prices were before the Bush economy collapsed? It was fuel prices that prompted the airlines to plan 10-15% cut backs in capacity before the economy tanked in mid to late 08 that in a lucky quirk of fate, helped the airlines weather the bad economy. It only stands to reason that as this economy improves, oil will continue to rise to 150 a barrel and beyond, limiting the industries ability just to add back the capacity it had in early 08. Not too mention our lackluster ATC system that still can't handle the industries current reduced capacity on VFR day, let alone when the weather is down to mins.

So it is you sir, who are warped on reality. The assertions you make are not supported by current conditions, or even any historical precedent that may have been set.

You make some valid points and that my friend is why this is America the Beautiful....you are entitled to your own opinion...I personally would never look at statistical history in a business model like the american transportation system to "predict the horrid future"...you may be right...I may be right....only time will tell....one thing is for certain...there may be concessions, consolidations, mergers, takeovers, rise and fall of crude oil and furloughs...but america has to fly...that will never change...pipejockey, good luck in the future...