American Eagle ..HIRING....

[atpcliff]

Hi!

2010 getting 7 new CRJ-700s, so that's 70 pilots just for those seats.

Will DAL be hiring in 2010? If so, then a certain number of Eagle guys will leave for DAL, or to fill spots at other airlines whose guys have left for the DAL spots. Same goes for Atlas, Evergreen, Omni, etc., etc. Some newer Eagle guys may also go to Compass.

Will the Flight/Duty/Rest rules change in 2010? Probably. If so, basically ALL US airlines will have to hire/recall to fill the new pilots needed, so there will be a lot of movement, as some Eagle guys will move up, and Eagle will need more guys to fill their new requirements.

Many foreign airlines are increasing their hiring now. How many Eagle guys will leave to go overseas? How many will move up, as guys at "better" airlines leave to go overseas?

2011? How many new pilots will be needed? How many new airframes will Eagle get? How much hiring will be done industry-wide that affects Eagle.

2012. The floodgates will open, as the 5 year halt to age-related retirements will end, and LOTS of guys will need to be replaced.

Another economic downturn? Big terrorist attack? Massive environmental tragedy? Any of these could negatively affect hiring/upgrades at Eagle.

There are many, many factors that affect upgrades/hiring/the health of the industry, and it is very difficult to predict.

The last few years have been among the worst for hiring in Aviation, so chances are things will improve a LOT! A 10 year upgrade at Eagle is what is current. New hires will have a massively different scenario that will affect their upgrades, probably very positively.

cliff
GRB

 

[CX880]

There are many, many factors that affect upgrades/hiring/the health of the industry, and it is very difficult to predict.

The last few years have been among the worst for hiring in Aviation, so chances are things will improve a LOT! A 10 year upgrade at Eagle is what is current. New hires will have a massively different scenario that will affect their upgrades, probably very positively.

cliff
GRB

The only way to upgrade is when one of two things happen:

1. Attrition, it's simply your time. Again almost 3000 pilots, equals to decade or more upgrades.

2. You get more airplanes. Ok they got more CRJs for this year, do you think they'll get any more ERJs? ATRs? And more importantly for who? AMR is up in a few years.

At the peak of the false economy eagle upgrades were at 7 years, at the least.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The third thing that affects upgrades is when the regs change.

The Age 65 change in 2007 stopped many guys from having to retire, and the rule will cause retirements to start again in 2012, and there are a TON of guys over age 60 in the airline industry that are pilots.

When the Flight/Duty/Rest rules change, more pilots will be required. Many airlines, if not all of them, are planning on hiring more pilots, if/when the rules change.

There are also many furloughed guys in the US, and as the recalls increase in momentum, it will lead to a cascade of hiring.

cliff
GRB

 

[BushwickBill]

I had wrongly assumed that hiring minimums would be much higher because of 3407 legislation.

So I was curious what regional airlines would do to attract people who had a lot more flight time than the last round of 300 hour wunderpilots. Would regional airlines Increase pay? Improve work rules? Respect for fatigue? I wanted things to get better for you guys.

Well there was no legislation. So I'm guessing minimums will start at 1000TT and then slowly weaken to meet demand.

That is the only way to fill a position with such a low wage and poor quality of life.

 

[DGdaPilot]

Do the math. Almost 3000 pilots, 100 new pilots a year if that. AT LEAST 10 years.

I guess you don't realize that there is a hiring gap at Eagle between 2001 and 2004. The FO's that were hired before that gap are approaching upgrade. This will drop upgrades 3 to 4 years overnight.

And by the way, Eagle only has about 2400 active pilots now.

 

[Flyby1206]

K guys, here are some real numbers to solve the arguement:

In the next 10 years AE will retire 256 pilots(not all of them are CAs) due to Age 65. That is 25 pilots/yr on avg.

JR CA is 8/21/00 DOH (9.5yrs)

203 FOs between JR CA and 1st 2004 DOH. (the infamous hiring gap)

170 Eagle FOs with 2004 DOHs

So how long will it take to go through 203 FOs to hit those 2004 DOHs?

How long will it take to go through all 170 of the 2004 DOHs?


My personal guess would be at least 2 yrs from now to hit those first 1/1/2004 guys (They would be on yr 8 seniority by then)

Another 1-2yrs to go through all the 2004 DOHs would keep the upgrades around 7-8yrs for the forseeable future.

I really doubt AE will grow (a net increase of airframes), and we have contract negotiations in 2012 so I am sure that will continue to stagnate things for a while. The only ray of sunshine would come from some sort of flowthrough resolution AND a growth at mainline to take the Eagle FTs.... Lots of big IFs. As previously stated, hiring booms havent had much effect on our upgrades because why would a 15-20yr AE CA want to leave their $100k seat to start over at DAL, Compass, JB, etc (it does effect some of the most junior FOs, but the senior FOs hold out at AE for the upgrade)

 

[DGdaPilot]

K guys, here are some real numbers to solve the arguement:

In the next 10 years AE will retire 256 pilots(not all of them are CAs) due to Age 65. That is 25 pilots/yr on avg.

JR CA is 8/21/00 DOH (9.5yrs)

203 FOs between JR CA and 1st 2004 DOH. (the infamous hiring gap)

170 Eagle FOs with 2004 DOHs

So how long will it take to go through 203 FOs to hit those 2004 DOHs?

How long will it take to go through all 170 of the 2004 DOHs?


My personal guess would be at least 2 yrs from now to hit those first 1/1/2004 guys (They would be on yr 8 seniority by then)

Another 1-2yrs to go through all the 2004 DOHs would keep the upgrades around 7-8yrs for the forseeable future.

I really doubt AE will grow (a net increase of airframes), and we have contract negotiations in 2012 so I am sure that will continue to stagnate things for a while. The only ray of sunshine would come from some sort of flowthrough resolution AND a growth at mainline to take the Eagle FTs.... Lots of big IFs. As previously stated, hiring booms havent had much effect on our upgrades because why would a 15-20yr AE CA want to leave their $100k seat to start over at DAL, Compass, JB, etc (it does effect some of the most junior FOs, but the senior FOs hold out at AE for the upgrade)

Good work on the numbers. Also remember that we have a win on this latest arbitration and it is a final ruling. Hopefully the implemenation by the arbitrator will lube the pipes.

 

[no1pilot2000]

Ladies and gentleman, welcome to tonights main even.

In this corner, weighing in at 150 pounds, in the red and silver trunks, from whereabouts unknown, is American Airlines.

And in the other corner, weighing in at 151 pounds, in the red and white trunks, from who knows where, is American Eagle.

Gentlemen, when the bell rings, come out, tap gloves, and start your turbines.

Ding....Ding.....

 

[CX880]

I had wrongly assumed that hiring minimums would be much higher because of 3407 legislation.

So I was curious what regional airlines would do to attract people who had a lot more flight time than the last round of 300 hour wunderpilots. Would regional airlines Increase pay? Improve work rules? Respect for fatigue? I wanted things to get better for you guys.

Well there was no legislation. So I'm guessing minimums will start at 1000TT and then slowly weaken to meet demand.

That is the only way to fill a position with such a low wage and poor quality of life.

Thats like the 6th time youve mentioned 3407 and 1500 hours legislation, are you ok? Do you only have 1400 hours?

 

[Lynxman]

He's 135 PIC so I'm sure he's met the times. He merely believes that the 1500 rule is a good idea, but too someone hired with 300 hours you wouldn't like that.

 

[pipejockey]

For me , I'm based in my hometown , no commuting and making good cash. Newhires , do your homework so you know what your getting into.

It is so sad to see all the people come rushing to the defense of their regional airline. Good cash you say? Well then I would assume you are a CA at Eagle. And you were probably hired when there were 2 year upgrades and have no idea what it is like to spend 10+ years in the right seat having to live off your parents or significant other, assuming anyone would be the significant other of a guy that has to rot in the right seat of an RJ for 10+ years.

Folks, if you want to spend 10+ years in the right seat of an RJ at 30 to 40 grand a year, be nearly 40 or over before upgrading, then sit on reserve again for 2+ years all the while you are most likely in your 40's at this point with perhaps a family you are struggling to raise, and know you will have to be on the job for 17 years before you will be able to hold a line with weekends off as a CA.....then by all means, go to Eagle. Oh, and the 17 years to hold a CA line with weekends off is for a NY based Eagle pilot, if you want to try that in Dallas, or LA, well by that time "open skies" will have taken all our jobs away anyway, so it's a moot point!

Why do people still scurry for these bottom feeding pilot jobs is beyond me. It is a mystery for the ages. People just can't be told. If I hadn't gotten in to this black hole of a profession 10 years ago, I could have actually made something of myself. Oh the sadness of lost youth and what could have been.

 

[pipejockey]

WOW this guy has no idea what he is talking about. Eagle is one of the best regionals around. Why do you think we have so many lifers here? FLAME AWAY

Because they all took the easy way out and waited for a flow-through to AA instead of being proactive and moving on to a major airline in the late 90's and 2000. You snooze you lose. Now look at them all, withering away as eagle lifers!

Just FYI

EMB 2nd year, made just shy of 35k worked NO OT..never have. Only flew 420hrs for the year. Was on RSV most of the time. My highest time month was 80hrs and i worked HARD on RSV for that. Other than that the most i flew in one month was 56hrs.I didnt even fly in March and i didnt use ANY vactation time.

Gee, so does that go for all bases? If so, then why do the eagle pilots I talk to speak of being short staffed which is evidenced by the continual denials of any drop requests, and even many trip trades? All the while you fly 420 hours? Something aint right!

I live in the middle of nowhere, have 2 paid off cars (ones a toy) and a nice newer truck that is about paid for...have the money for a house so life is pretty good for me going into my third year. Up to you to wether or not this place is for you.

Well bully bully for you! Now I'd like to hear from someone who actually has to subsist on their 35 grand alone and not from someone who obviously had a prior career that set them up a bit or family that supports their airline habit. So you can buy a house? A NYC based pilot may find your post a bit insulting. $400 a month in gas and tolls to NYC and thats for just 4 trips to the airport, $300 a month in student loans, $400 a month in food expenses for one, $120 a month for the well used vehicle many guys are stuck with, $200 a month for phone, cable, internet, electric. $500 rent for the dump an rj fo has to live in and that totals $1900 a month! I can guarantee you your 35 grand figure includes your per diem, and considering about 30% of that 35 grand is stolen by the government to bailout corporate america and the sh*t eating people that run corporate america, and you take home 2 grand a month.
Hey kid, when you actually have to support yourself on your income alone, then we'll listen to your opinion, until then, stop offending the rest of us who are struggling just to survive! It's insulting!

There we had a NEW AAB737 and AE ERJ145 next to each other in harmony. Both groups of pilots putting away their differences for a much HIGHER cause. WE got along just great.

Wow, what a company man!! What's it like to live in a world of lollipops and gumdrops?

Hey , for a guy who is not married, no kids(That he knows of?), no debt??? I think you can live on 35k.......

Now , I have FO's say captains make the big bucks.....OK??? throw in wife,kids, house and 2 cars and an ex-wife AND there goes the raise.....

Ok Mr. 2 year upgrade who has no idea what it's like to spend 10 years as an rj fo, are you saying that an FO needs to wait until upgrading to CA in order to have a wife, a kid or 2, and a couple cars? Financially I agree because on FO wages it's not appropriate to bring children in the world when you can barely support yourself. But if an FO at Eagle waits until upgrade, chances are he will be over 40 yo. What a great time to get a wife and have some kids. So much for ever being able to be a grandparent before becoming pre-historic! But we are just airline pilots and don't deserve these things I suppose!

Oh and BTW, how in the hell do you have no debt as a young rj fo, unless of course you are like so many of them today and are funded by their family. It's a shame it just seems to just be expected today that a guy can't afford to pursue this profession without living off their folks for years. I guess airline pilots don't deserve anything better. I mean, it's not like we actually tried to better ourselves and get an education and make great sacrifices to pursue this profession like all the guys stocking shelves at the home depot did who earn as much as we do.

I guess you don't realize that there is a hiring gap at Eagle between 2001 and 2004. The FO's that were hired before that gap are approaching upgrade. This will drop upgrades 3 to 4 years overnight.

And by the way, Eagle only has about 2400 active pilots now.

I think this is about as much misinformation one can put out in 4 sentences. Eagle stopped hiring in September of 01, and began in January of 04. That is 2.25 years. A far cry from the 3-4 you claim. Eagle actually has 2700 active pilots on their seniority list. Where do you get your info?

 

[LewisU_Pilot]

I love how people come on here and rip apart people who actually enjoy working at Eagle. Like it is going to change our minds to go some where else or something. I am 29, married, own a home in a nice suburb of Chicago and have no debt. I can't complain. My QOL at eagle is pretty darn good. All you hatters can go suck it for all i care!

 

[CX880]

He's 135 PIC so I'm sure he's met the times. He merely believes that the 1500 rule is a good idea, but too someone hired with 300 hours you wouldn't like that.

It's "to" someone, not "too" someone.

 

[CX880]

Oh and BTW, how in the hell do you have no debt as a young rj fo, unless of course you are like so many of them today and are funded by their family. It's a shame it just seems to just be expected today that a guy can't afford to pursue this profession without living off their folks for years. I guess airline pilots don't deserve anything better. I mean, it's not like we actually tried to better ourselves and get an education and make great sacrifices to pursue this profession like all the guys stocking shelves at the home depot did who earn as much as we do.
?

A lot of people these days dont have debt because their parents paid for school and flight training. Many others didn't go to school at all and used the college fund for flight training. I went to cheap state school so my college is paid off and parents volunteered for half of flight training, I still had to live with my parents to pay off some loans and even though I'm starting out, I now am no where near the level of QOl that I think I should be living. There are quite a few people that are debt free and in general have not made any sacrifice to get into this profession.

 

[bobs98tlr]

Because they all took the easy way out and waited for a flow-through to AA instead of being proactive and moving on to a major airline in the late 90's and 2000. You snooze you lose. Now look at them all, withering away as eagle lifers!




Gee, so does that go for all bases? If so, then why do the eagle pilots I talk to speak of being short staffed which is evidenced by the continual denials of any drop requests, and even many trip trades? All the while you fly 420 hours? Something aint right!



Well bully bully for you! Now I'd like to hear from someone who actually has to subsist on their 35 grand alone and not from someone who obviously had a prior career that set them up a bit or family that supports their airline habit. So you can buy a house? A NYC based pilot may find your post a bit insulting. $400 a month in gas and tolls to NYC and thats for just 4 trips to the airport, $300 a month in student loans, $400 a month in food expenses for one, $120 a month for the well used vehicle many guys are stuck with, $200 a month for phone, cable, internet, electric. $500 rent for the dump an rj fo has to live in and that totals $1900 a month! I can guarantee you your 35 grand figure includes your per diem, and considering about 30% of that 35 grand is stolen by the government to bailout corporate america and the sh*t eating people that run corporate america, and you take home 2 grand a month.
Hey kid, when you actually have to support yourself on your income alone, then we'll listen to your opinion, until then, stop offending the rest of us who are struggling just to survive! It's insulting!



Wow, what a company man!! What's it like to live in a world of lollipops and gumdrops?



Ok Mr. 2 year upgrade who has no idea what it's like to spend 10 years as an rj fo, are you saying that an FO needs to wait until upgrading to CA in order to have a wife, a kid or 2, and a couple cars? Financially I agree because on FO wages it's not appropriate to bring children in the world when you can barely support yourself. But if an FO at Eagle waits until upgrade, chances are he will be over 40 yo. What a great time to get a wife and have some kids. So much for ever being able to be a grandparent before becoming pre-historic! But we are just airline pilots and don't deserve these things I suppose!

Oh and BTW, how in the hell do you have no debt as a young rj fo, unless of course you are like so many of them today and are funded by their family. It's a shame it just seems to just be expected today that a guy can't afford to pursue this profession without living off their folks for years. I guess airline pilots don't deserve anything better. I mean, it's not like we actually tried to better ourselves and get an education and make great sacrifices to pursue this profession like all the guys stocking shelves at the home depot did who earn as much as we do.



I think this is about as much misinformation one can put out in 4 sentences. Eagle stopped hiring in September of 01, and began in January of 04. That is 2.25 years. A far cry from the 3-4 you claim. Eagle actually has 2700 active pilots on their seniority list. Where do you get your info?

WOW, dude...sit back and chill for a second. Im 27 years old and had a prior flying job before this, actually a couple. I paid for ALL my flight training, all part 61 and work as a fueler/airport B!tch for quite a few years. I paid my way. I cant help that those guys in the NE live up there, its there choice and i dont blame them. They grew up there/have family there whatever. Im lucky enough to live in an area where i can get a really nice house for 100k. I do support myself, and just because you cant on this salary doesnt mean you have to "bully bully" me. Im not saying 35k is awesome money, but i make enough to get by. That is good enough for me at the moment. Eagle is one of the best regional airlines you can go to. Go ahead and put down all of us at the regionals that arent as mighty as you since we cant get mainline jobs or move on to better places at the moment. In case you havent noticed, which you bring up 30% taxes and bailing out of our government...there arent any jobs for us to leave to. With the job market for pilots dead like it is we have to stay positive and make do with what we have. That is what im doing...if you cant, well good luck to your family.

My flying was funded by a car accident i was involved with, i got alittle bit of money out of the deal and fueling at the airport. I did most of my flying at a flying club which was a HUGE help. I fueled and networked my way into king airs/citations..built some time and went to instruct. Shortly after that i flew cargo for alittle bit before comming to eagle. My "toy" car, ive had since i was 16. Which i worked at a home depot to afford. My airport car i bought years ago, my truck is almost paid off...That is my short story. I probably shouldnt have said anything though since you seem to know just about everything about regional airline pilot pay and what we can afford.

Eagle is short staffed right now, i flew 57hrs last month and so far 17 this month. Our company hasnt been allowing drops or to many trades, not my problem. However with my schedule its work out well for me lately. Sorry about your friends though.

BTW...JetJam knows whats its like to be an FO and a family man, he enjoys life, family and his job. Why knock on a guy for making the best out of life and a fun job?

 

[Lynxman]

It's "to" someone, not "too" someone.

Your guna loose you're mind trying to correct my grammer.

 

[jetjam619]

It is so sad to see all the people come rushing to the defense of their regional airline. Good cash you say? Well then I would assume you are a CA at Eagle. And you were probably hired when there were 2 year upgrades and have no idea what it is like to spend 10+ years in the right seat having to live off your parents or significant other, assuming anyone would be the significant other of a guy that has to rot in the right seat of an RJ for 10+ years.

Folks, if you want to spend 10+ years in the right seat of an RJ at 30 to 40 grand a year, be nearly 40 or over before upgrading, then sit on reserve again for 2+ years all the while you are most likely in your 40's at this point with perhaps a family you are struggling to raise, and know you will have to be on the job for 17 years before you will be able to hold a line with weekends off as a CA.....then by all means, go to Eagle. Oh, and the 17 years to hold a CA line with weekends off is for a NY based Eagle pilot, if you want to try that in Dallas, or LA, well by that time "open skies" will have taken all our jobs away anyway, so it's a moot point!

Why do people still scurry for these bottom feeding pilot jobs is beyond me. It is a mystery for the ages. People just can't be told. If I hadn't gotten in to this black hole of a profession 10 years ago, I could have actually made something of myself. Oh the sadness of lost youth and what could have been.

HEY PIPEJOCKEY.....First of all, you gotta get off that PIPE, its turning your brain into MUSH....Look due and LISTEN UP...I HAVE PAID MY DUES.....YOU GOT THAT.....I spent 4-5y as an FO with a downgrade, watching Flowbacks take my job as well as 2 "combat tours" in SanJuan.

The airshow thing??? "Company Man???".......Its nice when you can do different things besides 2-4 legs a day for 4 days.....or YOU can get paid to be at an airshow for an entire weekend??? NOW, which one would you choose????

I learned ALOT watching an 1-2y AA taking MY L-seat....You can either beotch and complain and be miserable? or do your job the best that you can because you dont have any control over the situation.

Believe me, Ive tried to leave but everyone I applied with or had an interview is EITHER out of business, ready to go out of business,low pay and commute or be gone 21 days a month for crappy pay.. I consider myself lucky ....QOL is great.....that right there is worth a lot.

 

[NRHPilot]

A lot of people these days dont have debt because their parents paid for school and flight training. Many others didn't go to school at all and used the college fund for flight training. I went to cheap state school so my college is paid off and parents volunteered for half of flight training, I still had to live with my parents to pay off some loans and even though I'm starting out, I now am no where near the level of QOl that I think I should be living. There are quite a few people that are debt free and in general have not made any sacrifice to get into this profession.

Hey non educated guy with some broke internet degree or a worthless degree from an "avation school." If you want to critique grammar, start with your post. Dont is spelled don't. "I went to cheap state....." How about putting an "A" in that sentence. You should of gone to a real four year university, earned a real degree in something besides avaition, and have a plan for some passive income Dumb Arse!

 

[Bobby Orr 4]

It is very good news that Eagle is hiring. It must start at some point and we can only hope this trend continues.
When I fly with captains with a military background they ask me what it was like at Eagle. I tell them there were two great aspects working for Eagle. First is the people. Great memories of captains and first officers I flew with. Second, Eagle and AMR management kept me very motivated to find another job. Miserable conditions five years ago.
My three best days at Eagle:
#3. getting hired
#2. upgrade
#1. my last day of employment