BluDevAv8r said:
Well it all depends what the starting point is, right? What if I started at 16 days off and 90 hours of credit? And ended up at 13 days off with 110 hours of credit? 13 days off works fine for me since I live in domicile.
That's great that it works for you. If I lived in domicile I'd bid all day trips and be home every night, then 12 or 13 days off wouldn't be so bad. However, you're in the minority; most of us commute, therefore I don't like less than 14 or 15 days off.
Maybe I should have been more clear when I said 7:30 for 2:00 of flying. That would be a 1 hour flight from EWR to ALB at 8pm at night and come back at 7am the next day. It is not a 40 hour TAFB 2-day. More like a stand-up/nap for 7:30 minimum. That is basically 2 days off (but a nap in a hotel room) for 7:30.
No, I understood you perfectly. I'm not willing to give up two days of flying and a night away from home for 7:30 of pay. No matter HOW short the TAFB is. I'd much rather come up on the early flight, fly two days for 12-14 hours of pay, then go home on the last flight, get home by 8 p.m. and be done. Same number of days away from home, almost twice as much money.
Of course, we also have 7:30 round trip turns in open time as well like IAH-BOI-IAH. Easy money when you leave at 10am and come back 8 hours later.
Now THAT would be worth it for me, one day of flying, zero nights away from home, 7:30 of credit, double that if premium pay. Sounds good, no argument, and 200% premium pay should be the standard, that's definitely a plus in your T.A. How often can you get that? Can you get that 200% premium pay just by picking trips up? How about 150%? If so, then THAT would be a good way toward your soft credits that I would appreciate and MIGHT take a little less on pay if I could trip improve with premium pay for the extra picked up.
XJT gets about 7% to 10% from its leg by leg (segment pay) provision alone (in other words, you aren't penalized for being early since you are protected to scheduled block but you are paid actual block when over). Daily productivity is about 5:30ish in EWR and IAH right now and much closer to 6:00 per day if you aren't in the bottom 30% of the lines.
Yes, we have segment pay at airTran and it's FANTASTIC; from what I'm told, it gives about 5-7% override in pay coming in and out of Atlanta, historically one of the highest ground delay hubs in the world. We're also running about 6 hours per day productivity, but so is PCL.
Not true. I'm talk about soft time...being paid for flying that you aren't actually doing.
Yes, and segment pay IS a form of soft time. Getting paid when you underblock IS getting paid for flying you aren't actually doing.
Again, if I 30/7 off of a EWR-MCI-EWR day trip and am pay protected for that 6:30 of flight time...how is it losing a day off by then picking up a similar trip the next day (originally scheduled day off)? That is double-dipping and basically paying you 200% for the original MCI turn.
I missed the part in your original example where the 6 hour EWR-MCI turn was a day trip. The 100% removal pay is definitely a bonus, especially when they're removing you from an FAR conflict and still paying you? Most airlines have some sort of credit for most cancellations, but I can't think of very many that pay for FAR .471 removals.
But like you said: Different strokes for different folks, I'd take the 100% cancellation pay and the extra day off and go home. I like my days off.
If I had something else going on on the side that paid me more than going to work, I'd be bidding for 16-18 days off (which is attainable at XJT if you know what you are doing in the line improvement window). But never...not once...did I go below the contractually guaranteed minimum of 12 days off.
12 days off is barely livable for me; anything less is pure hell. 14 days off is my happy place and I have NO intention of working more than that if I can credit 90-100 hours a month, no matter what it pays.
I should probably clarify here that I took the time to go back in my logbook and bank reports and saw how many hours were premium pay (ext / ja) and how many days I honestly flew less than a trip/duty rig would have paid; it was VERY minimal. On an average yearly block of 900-1000 hours, I was Junior Assigned the MOST in 2005, for a total of 32 hours, compensated on existing premium pay of 125 to 150%. The extra 50-75% would have credited me an extra 2% on my W-2. Trip and Duty rigs (when not on reserve) would have credited me less than 1% extra on our existing trip construction.
That's why I say I would want more money on hourly rates; I just never see enough of the cancellation pay, ext/JA premium pay, or trip/duty rigs at either PCL or airTran that clearly give a 15-20% override. Although a FEW would benefit on some select trips, by and large as regional pilots we already fly more than those rigs would give the MAJORITY of the pilot group and I would rather have a 10% in hourly rates than a 3% in soft credit.
The only way it would benefit us is if the company suddenly hired a lot more people and spread out the flying and made the trips like the old legacy carrier trips (two legs, 18 hour overnight, 1 leg, 35 hour overnight, etc) or the company suddenly understaffed the airline so dramatically that EXT/JA became a daily event (like PCL did for 4-6 months back in 2005).
These are great discussions by the way, and hopefully give the pilots at both carriers (PCL and AirTran which are both in Section 6) some food for thought. Do the math, guys! Go back in your yearly W-2's and your logbooks (I always track duty time for checking my pay banks) and apply multiple scenarios of trip and duty rigs and see which ones, if any, would benefit you. Then go back and see how many times you were JA'd or EXT'd and see how a 200% override would affect you differently than the 125/150% you already get (PCL pilots).
Once you've done that, email your NC. Tell them what you've found and what you want in YOUR T.A.
Good luck to ya'!