ALPA loses at Skywest

[PositionandHold]

I don't think it had anything at all to do with "loud mouthed" ALPA supporters turning them off. I think it just had to do with 65% being perfectly content with the status quo. 65%.. I mean, wow. Management won by a landslide.

 

[BE90flyer]

I think you mean to say that pilots won by a landslide.

 

[PCL_128]

I think you mean to say that pilots won by a landslide.

No, he had it right the first time. Management was the only winner here. You just don't realize it yet.

 

[joe_pilot]

I don't think it had anything at all to do with "loud mouthed" ALPA supporters turning them off. I think it just had to do with 65% being perfectly content with the status quo. 65%.. I mean, wow. Management won by a landslide.

I disagree. Many of the "no" votes I talked to just couldn't stand the rhetoric. Couple that with things being pretty good here and 2% less pay and they chose "no".

I persuaded a few to a "yes", but only after I convinced them to stop listening to the spin from both sides and do a real cost-benefit analysis of having ALPA represent them.

Look, it took a lot of effort for me to get past all of the "loud mouths" on both sides. But then again, I was a season ticket holder at Veteran's stadium for years - I'm used to it. A lot of people just got fed up and shut-down. That's my point.

-JP

 

[Gandalf]

All of the back and forth crap about 2% this, and we have it pretty good is totally missing the point. No wonder 65% voted no. The real issue is missing in all of this fluff.

Not to beat a dead horse but...

IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT SAPA SAYS, WHO THEY "ELECT", HOW MANY TIMES THEY TALK TO JERRY, WHAT FUZZY GOOD FEELINGS THEY TALK ABOUT...

THEY HAVE NO POWER, NO STANDING TO NEGOIATE ANYTHING. MANAGEMENT CAN DO ANYTHING WITH OUR WORK RULES, FLEET PLANS, INTEGRATION(SCREWING OF) WITH ASA, PAY RULES, VACATION RULES, AND ON AND ON.

And this is the part that all of you working at Sh$$thole places like Mesa say, well you guys at SKYW have it pretty good, your pay is ok, your work rules are ok. Why are you complaining, be happy with what you have.....

That is not the point....Yes I am happy here, the reason I chose SKYW is because of the above mentioned things...

BUT....Maybe, just maybe I see some things that could be a little better. Maybe, just maybe, I really am a selfish pilot and I have something that I want for myself out of this job...That I am not currently getting....

ITS NOT THAT SAPA DOESN'T TRY.....ITS THAT SAPA IS POWERLESS!

SAPA:We want more than a 1% raise, a commuter policy, better pay protection, etc. etc....

SGU: No

SAPA: But, please.

SGU: No

SAPA: But, Pretty Please...

SGU: No

SAPA: But...

SGU: No.

SAPA: ok.

To all of those who voted no or chose not to vote -
I DON"T WANT TO HEAR ANY WHINING ABOUT...... pay issues, fleet issues, integration issues, quality of life issues, schedule problems, commuting issues, vacation issues, reserve issues, cancellation pay, Appendix D issues, any issue that makes this job what it is. ANY issue that ANYONE raises on either the SKYW or SAPA forums - DON"T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT - in fact lets just take down those boards so you all can't complain.

With this vote, we all, me included has lost the right to complain. This is the system we have. If you don't like it get out. Obviously we won't change it.

Either we as lowly employees should shut the F-up and let the company do what it needs to do to make JA and the board money - cuz' remember, no matter how many fuzzies we get from them - It is a business.

In that case, we should NEVER b!tch, complain, moan, try to guess and second guess what they are doing, NEVER get involved in changing things - no matter what the cost or inconvience to us as employees. Because to do so would interfere with the goal of running a business to make a profit.

or....

If we want to have the right to control ANY part of our destiny as employees of Skywest, then it our duty to get involved and partipate.

The problem with SAPA is as much as we "partipate" in the process it does us no good. You as a dedicated, informed employee can cast your vote on a pay proposal but if SGU doesn't want to abide by it, "they" won't. And there is absolutely no provisions for us as employees to appeal that process.

We are along for the ride. "They" will run the company in the manner best to make money for the board. Plain and Simple. Black and White. Cut and Dry. Nothing personal, just business. Any issues you or I care about do not matter - Everything that has been discussed ad nauseum on this board doesn't matter to them.

Just - How are those things affecting the bottom line?

So, my point is - next time you are mad or disappointed that the company is doing something to you that you don't like or agree with, keep those thoughts to yourself and be glad you have a job.

If you want the right to change things or to voice your displeasure at the company for; PBS, the pairings, your 3 hour sits in ORD, etc, etc, etc...
Then we have to figure out a way to HAVE a voice.


So, clock in, fly safe, go home.

If you are going to spend time and energy complaining about things to other pilots either while you are flying or on the message boards then answer this..

HOW ARE WE GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING HERE? How are we going to IMPROVE "pay issues, quality of life issues, schedule problems, commuting issues, vacation issues, reserve issues, cancellation pay etc, etc...?"

HOW??????????????

Oh yeah, lets hold another SAPA election.

What now guys? All I hear, is whew not ALPA. OK. Great. But, everyone agrees that SAPA is a joke. Ok. Great. What now?

An in-house union drive failed. ALPA drives failed. Do you think there is a reason that the Teamsters or anyone else hasn't tried? Hmmmm...

Even with the Teamsters or ANY of available pilot unions out there - they have some of the same problems of ALPA. They ALL represent major airlines.

So, if any of you are willing to turn off Halo 3, get off the couch and start Regional Airline Pilots Assoc. and get nationwide partipation, go for it.

However, RALPA does not exist. So, again - do we really want to deal with SAPA and the status quo?

JA, BH, and CC are NOT IMMORTAL. Sorry to dissapoint. At some point in this companies history, they WILL NOT BE RUNNING THINGS. It is ridiculous to say just because we have had it good now, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THAT WAY.

HAVE ANY OF YOU LOOKED AT THE HISTORY OF THIS INDUSTRY? NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING stays the same, change happens. And when it does, believe me it will - Are we seriously going to benefit from the SAPA puppets leading us around.

Forward thinking people!

 

[SkyNation]

joe_pilot has the most logical and true take on this whole thing.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

PBR-

Since no SKYW pilot has the courage or ability to answer this...maybe you can....

Why can Jerry have a labor contract for his employment but not for the pilots?

Also, after the SKYW pilots get thier quick upgrade then what? Goals obtained are not motivators!!

Rez,
Jerry and the top tier have contracts because they are saavy and smart, they know that a contract is the best way to insure they get their agreed upon compensation. This is the very same reason they do not want the SKYW pilot to have a contract, this allows them to remain "flexible, nimble and able to adapt to rapidly changing market forces". The only reason I can see for this flexibility is to be able to things like furlough out of seniority, close domiciles, discipline without recourse(including termination, see DD for exception), and the ability to unilaterally impose whatever they want.SKYW sells the quick upgrade as the lifestyle enhancment that everyone wants, mixed with kool-aid it makes for a formidable drug, it is the ice of the aviation industry, the only problem is it leaves at least 50% of the pilot group standing when the music stops. And stop it will $100.00 a barrel oil is gonna slow things right down, UAl is talking about parking up to 100 planes, if the industry doesn't increase fares they all will go back into BK. I am gonna love it when the sreamin' upgrade pace slows if not evens stops and all the stupid kool-aid drinkers are left standing and their worst nightmare starts, stuck in the right seat with $hitty work rules, $hittier pay and a broken kool-aid machine. I agree "goals obtained are not motivators", remember these are people who wear their golf spikes while they climb up and over their fellow pilots. i can safely say if the f/o who sits next to me turns out to be one of the 66%ers, he better be on his game, because I will be watching very critically and would love to make his/her life a little more interesting with a trip to SLC for a refresher course.
PBR

 

[capt. megadeth]

Another attack on a fine pilot group..... Keep up the attacks..... that will get a lot of YES voters...

I see....speaking the truth now amounts to an "attack". LOL!

 

[capt. megadeth]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Greener pastures....you gotta be kidding me!!?? who do you fly for? i can't imagine it being better than skywest! skywest is even better now that we don't have to worry about that ALPA horse*%*%.....yeah maybe we'll become better like ASA...or comair...or freedom...hahaha what a joke man

Don't worry son, after you get a little more than 1200 TT, you might see the light. :laugh:

If Skywest is your idea of the best, you have some realllllly loooooow expectations.

 

[capt. megadeth]

joe_pilot has the most logical and true take on this whole thing.

Nope, Gandalf does. I agree and think everything he says....I just can't get it out tactfully.

 

[Ranger13]

Do you think the vote for "silence" was a "no" vote or a "yes" vote??​

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD
WASHINGTON, D.C.
Flight Deck Crew Members of SkyWest Airlines, Inc.
sought to be represented by Air Line Pilots Association and presently
UNREPRESENTED.
CASE NO. R-7125
DATE ISSUED: November 6, 2007
LOCATION: Washington, DC
REPORT OF ELECTION RESULTS
The undersigned National Mediation Board Representative certifies the votes
cast in this election as follows:
1. Number of Eligible Voters: 2611
2. Void Votes 2
3. Votes Cast for: Air Line Pilots Association 904
4. Votes Cast for: Write-in: SAPA 4
5. Votes Cast for: Write-in: Teamsters 2
6. Votes Cast for: Write-in: silence 1
7. Valid Votes Counted (sum of 3 through 6) 911​

 

[PCL_128]

I disagree. Many of the "no" votes I talked to just couldn't stand the rhetoric.

Come on, Joe, you're smarter than that. That was just a cop-out from those people. They didn't want to vote for representation, so they cooked up some bullsh*& reason having to do with "rhetoric" and other such BS. The truth is, they were just selfish and had this crazy idea in their heads that ALPA might screw up the growth and quick upgrades. Nobody makes a decision as important as this based on some "attacks" from a few people on a message board or in a crew van. You give these NO voters too much credit. Acknowledge them for what they are: selfish.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Actually:

Don't know for sure Jerry has a contract, but I don't think he really needs one: Chairman of the Board of the parent company; largest single individual shareholder; track-record. Who's going to oust him, shareholder or Board movement? Though if he does have a contract: folks, wake up, he's the top-dog (like an industry veteran at the top his conditions of employment are probably similar to anywhere else).

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

.SKYW sells the quick upgrade as the lifestyle enhancment that everyone wants, PBR

What happens after you upgrade?

You buy a house and fear ALPA will cause you to lose it?

 

[WAZUP]

Rez,
Jerry and the top tier have contracts because they are saavy and smart, they know that a contract is the best way to insure they get their agreed upon compensation. This is the very same reason they do not want the SKYW pilot to have a contract, this allows them to remain "flexible, nimble and able to adapt to rapidly changing market forces". The only reason I can see for this flexibility is to be able to things like furlough out of seniority, close domiciles, discipline without recourse(including termination, see DD for exception), and the ability to unilaterally impose whatever they want.SKYW sells the quick upgrade as the lifestyle enhancment that everyone wants, mixed with kool-aid it makes for a formidable drug, it is the ice of the aviation industry, the only problem is it leaves at least 50% of the pilot group standing when the music stops. And stop it will $100.00 a barrel oil is gonna slow things right down, UAl is talking about parking up to 100 planes, if the industry doesn't increase fares they all will go back into BK. I am gonna love it when the sreamin' upgrade pace slows if not evens stops and all the stupid kool-aid drinkers are left standing and their worst nightmare starts, stuck in the right seat with $hitty work rules, $hittier pay and a broken kool-aid machine. I agree "goals obtained are not motivators", remember these are people who wear their golf spikes while they climb up and over their fellow pilots. i can safely say if the f/o who sits next to me turns out to be one of the 66%ers, he better be on his game, because I will be watching very critically and would love to make his/her life a little more interesting with a trip to SLC for a refresher course.
PBR

Oh that last statement was good, way to have people vote in ALPA. Why not say if you don't vote for ALPA I'm sending you back for training. TOOL!

 

[flylike44]

you skywest folks should be absolutely terrified of what may be coming around the bend in terms of a seniority list integration with asa...good luck...

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Oh that last statement was good, way to have people vote in ALPA. Why not say if you don't vote for ALPA I'm sending you back for training. TOOL!

$hitferbrains, I said if he is not on his game, brush up on your reading/comprehension skills, although I wouldn't expect much from a dork like you!
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

What happens after you upgrade?

You buy a house and fear ALPA will cause you to lose it?

Nothing, your exposure remains the same, there is just a little more to loose. ALPA cannot cause me to loose anything, SKYW corp. on the other hand can cause $150K +, Just ask DD.
PBR

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

For 35 years and countless ALPA drives, we've been hearing about how Uncle Jerry is going to f&#k us over and still Skywest has always either been near or at the top with pay and work rules.

8th year ScabWest CRJ 700/900 CA $74

8th year XJT Emb 145 CA $73.28

ScabWest pay $1.05 (or less) per seat
XJT pay $1.46 per seat

39% higher pay than ScabWest

Maybe Jerry just has a really small f&#k stick, so you can't feel it?

 

[difete]

What a shame. I was hoping it would pass.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Actually:

Don't know for sure Jerry has a contract, but I don't think he really needs one: Chairman of the Board of the parent company; largest single individual shareholder; track-record. Who's going to oust him, shareholder or Board movement? Though if he does have a contract: folks, wake up, he's the top-dog (like an industry veteran at the top his conditions of employment are probably similar to anywhere else).

Ignorance is bliss?

 

[Erlanger]

8th year ScabWest CRJ 700/900 CA $74

8th year XJT Emb 145 CA $73.28

ScabWest pay $1.05 (or less) per seat
XJT pay $1.46 per seat

39% higher pay than ScabWest.

So XJT pilots make a little bit more money then Skywest pilots. And they pay 2%, so deduct that. But what's your point? And Skywest pay is higher then most of the other ALPA regionals. How do you reconcile that? It is ALPA that negotiated the crap pay and work rules at theses other carriers. You seem to forget that but you say it's management's fault. With ALPA's crackpot high caliber lawyers and negotiators, boy I am really impressed (NOT!). Oh please do on to us as ALPA has f*#k the other regionals. The only reason you guys are upset is because misery loves company.

 

[BigLebowski]

8th year ScabWest CRJ 700/900 CA $74

8th year XJT Emb 145 CA $73.28

ScabWest pay $1.05 (or less) per seat
XJT pay $1.46 per seat

39% higher pay than ScabWest

Maybe Jerry just has a really small f&#k stick, so you can't feel it?

Woah...so sorry. Maybe one day we will be equal to all of you and be part of the "master race" just like you.

Hey do you remember last year when you called everybody scabs for "underbidding" on "your" flying? What are you guys now?..considering you scabs under bid your "union brothers" over at ASA to take "their" flying out of LAX?

 

[SkyNation]

8th year ScabWest CRJ 700/900 CA $74

8th year XJT Emb 145 CA $73.28

I'm an RJ CA at SkyWest. My buddy is a CA at XJT. He's been there almost 2 years longer than I've been here. Yet, I'll make more than him to the tune of about 15K.

 

[HDA]

Try that with me and I will slap you into last week! Just kiddn man......hope you are still chilln on reserve and getting that toy stuck alot!!!! Im glad I made the move....things are bueno!!!

 

[PCL_128]

I'm an RJ CA at SkyWest. My buddy is a CA at XJT. He's been there almost 2 years longer than I've been here. Yet, I'll make more than him to the tune of about 15K.

That's because you're an open time whore. Anyone can make tons of money, even on crap payrates, if they whore themselves out for 99.9 hours of block per month. Most of us would prefer to actually see our own houses instead of yet another night in a hotel, however.

 

[DX Rick]

That's because you're an open time whore. .

You have no room to call anyone that, GIA BOY.

 

[SkyNation]

99.9 hours of block per month. Most of us would prefer to actually see our own houses instead of yet another night in a hotel, however.

I've never even approached that much. Thanks for the predictable name calling, though.

Everyone hates a winner!

RECENT RESEARCH into the darker recesses of human behaviour supports the received wisdom that “everyone hates a winner” and suggests how much people are prepared to sacrifice in order to bring winners down.

 

[flynryan15]

I'm an RJ CA at SkyWest. My buddy is a CA at XJT. He's been there almost 2 years longer than I've been here. Yet, I'll make more than him to the tune of about 15K.

He should make that much more seeing that he is flying an aircraft capable of carrying 80 percent more people!!!

 

[Beach Boy]

Perhaps

Come on, Joe, you're smarter than that. That was just a cop-out from those people. They didn't want to vote for representation, so they cooked up some bullsh*& reason having to do with "rhetoric" and other such BS. The truth is, they were just selfish and had this crazy idea in their heads that ALPA might screw up the growth and quick upgrades. Nobody makes a decision as important as this based on some "attacks" from a few people on a message board or in a crew van. You give these NO voters too much credit. Acknowledge them for what they are: selfish.

Skywest Pilots:

As an ALPA member, I have to wonder why you voted "no". I tried to think of some reasons why you voted no so perhaps we could learn to do a better job of selling ALPA in the future. :

Perhaps you are familiar with the economic history of the airlines.
Perhaps you are familiar with free market supply and demand principles.
Perhaps you thus wondered why ALPA represented airlines were unable to compete with their low cost competition in the late 1990s and early 2000s.
Perhaps you wondered why of the nearly 10,000 pilots furloughed between 2000 and 2005, nearly 8000 were ALPA pilots.
Perhaps you wondered, that being the case above, how exactly did ALPA representation look out for their career security?
Perhaps you realized that considering the history of the airlines, and free markets, ALPA negotiation strategy is fundamentally flawed.
Perhaps you were wondering where ALPA got all that money to fete you during their organizing push.
Perhaps you were wondering if any ALPA members objected to their dues money, (originally contributed to fund the representation of their needs to management), being used to fund organizing at Skywest.
Perhaps you read the ALPA Bylaws, which have no mechanism for holding ALPA accountable for the way they would spend your dues money.
Perhaps you wondered why the first thing that ALPA will negotiate if they had organized you, was an agency shop clause, which requires you to pay dues, whether you are a member or not.
Perhaps you thus wondered what was more important to ALPA – your money or representing your concerns to management.
Perhaps you wondered why, with an industry leading compensation package and reasonably good relations with management, ALPA felt that you needed organizing.
Perhaps you then realized that organizing Skywest was in the best interest of ALPA and not necessarily in your best interest.
Perhaps you read some ALPA pamphlets and realized that ALPA builds unity through the rhetoric of envy, greed, jealously and even hate and you didn’t want that to destroy your current work environment.
Perhaps now, you are wondering why ALPA radicals are seeking to punish you, thus forcing you to adopt their philosophy and world view.
Perhaps you are turned off by the fact that members of a purportedly democratic representative entity would engage in such fascist behaviors.
Perhaps you were thus turned off by the implication that you would have to check your free speech rights with the receipt of your membership card.
Perhaps you, likely being a conscientous objector. were repulsed by the prospect of (as I have received) threatening letters delivered to your house, phone calls in the middle of the night, and coffee and worse poured into your chart case.
Perhaps you read the ALPA Code of Conduct and wondered how this squared with "100% safety drives, sickouts, slow taxi drives, and other unofficial job actions during contract negotiations.
Perhaps you were turned off by ALPA’s affiliation with the AFL-CIO which recently teamed with the ACLU to sue prevent the Federal government from finding the illegal immigrants in its membership.
Perhaps you were further turned off by the Meatpackers union, a brother AFL-CIO union to ALPA, who sued to stop ICE from conducting raids to apprehend illegal immigrants, who just so happened to be dues paying union members.
Perhaps, as a Christian, you just couldn’t bring yourself to support the destruction of livelihoods of perhaps thousands of innocent non-union employees (through a strike) just to line your pockets with a few more dollars.
Perhaps as a Christian, you realized that nearly all of the above violates any number of Christian teachings and you realized that,you just couldn’t support the means and methods ALPA employs.
Perhaps you realized that while unionization might be in your future, ALPA isn’t.
Perhaps ALPA faced with their failure to organize Colgan and now Skywest for the third time, will engage in a period of self-examination and fundamentally change their paradigm.
Yeah, and then again, perhaps it will rain gold doubloons tomorrow.