ALPA loses at Skywest

[BirdCatcher]

I don't know if you are insinuating that I have a me me me attitude, but just in case you are....

I don't, or have I ever worked for and ALPA carrier so why should I care anyway? Why? Because I give a crap about the lives of others...I know, it's a crazy concept but when someone (usually management) screws my fellow pilots, whether it's at Mesa, World, etc., it bothers me and makes me mad. You see it's called the concept of sticking together, something management has mastered, but for some reason, pilots have not.

You ask what is ALPA doing to fix things? What is management doing to fix things?

What a concept, imagine if more were to understand...

 

[Gandalf]

Food for thought: All of you out there that are ALPA/Union haters that work for a non-union airline, or wish to work for a non-union airline. I hope you are happy and I sure hope that nothing happens in this industry to have you change employers.

US ALPA
Alaska, Aloha, AWA/USAir, ASTAR Air Cargo, ATA, Atlas Air Cargo, Continental, Delta ,Evergreen, FedEx, Gemini Air Cargo, Hawaiian, Kitty Hawk Cargo, Midwest Airlines, Northwest Airlines, Polar Air Cargo, Spirit, Sun Country, United

US - other Unions
American, AirTran, Frontier, Southwest, USA3000, ABX Air Cargo, UPS, Kalitta Air Cargo, World Air Cargo, NetJets, Flight Options

International Countries – Check out www.ifalpa.org
Algeria, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Caribbean, Chile, Columbia, Finland, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Iceland, India, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, LeeWard Islands, Luxemborg, Malaysia, Mauritius, Mexico, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, Trinidad & Tobago, Turkey, U.K., and Yugoslavia.

This list is not an exhaustive list…..

Hmmm….Not too many choices at THIS career level to work without some sort of union represenation.

Could it be that JA, BH, and CC have figured out some magic potion or formula in SGU that thousands if not millions of pilots now and in the past have not?

Interesting that worldwide, crossing all language and cultural differences commercial pilots choose time and time again to have union represenation.

If it was so bad to have a union represent us, if this career did not need it, if pilots of all experience levels, backgrounds, nationalities, religious, and cultural differences decided that it wasn’t right - then why do we find this list?

Are you going to let the "bad" experience of your first foray into this industry determine which company you work for? Are you never going to date even though you had a messy divorce? What a stupid question. Wait.........Hmmm......

Are you going to stick to those laurels and never work for a union represented airline/company? If so, that list is small my friends. Will I pass you in an airport terminal someday wearing the dreaded uniform of those on this list?

Why do pilots worldwide, choose to have union represenation?

 

[BigLebowski]

Thank God its over. But all the whinny a@# APLA supporters will never shut up but we can hope most of them leave SOON


I guess they want jobs at an ALPA carrier right??

No better than Gojet guys !!!

are you as dumb as you sound??? Do you even know the basis behind the creation of GoJet's?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

The previous Air Willy contracts were could enough for Jerry to consider when he came up with your pay rate...

Why is Jerry having a labor contract with the BOD but you don't have one with him.... NO SKYW PILOT HAS YET TO ANSWER THIS!!!!!

Rez,
I am a SKYW pilot, AirWis contracts(as well as every other top tier regional) were the template that our working agreement was created, the remains of our current agreement should tell you how good we HAD it. All the turdz that came from other ALPA carriers were jumping only for the quick upgrade, hence the looking out themselves behavior. They think if they parrot JA, BH and the rest of the management puppeteers, their quick upgrade will be there, and when they get it, they think their plan worked, it did, but it created a narrow mindset unable to think beyond their zipper. You see lots of selfish, me first, generation stupid, idiots came together in the perfect storm that is todays SKYW, chock full of the exact types you don't want anywhere your seniority list. Really think about it, even after all the things the company has taken from us, how good did we have it before they took these things away? Jerry has a contract because he is saavy, intelligent, smart, and everything the pilots(in majority) that he employs don't enjoy. Stop trying to change their minds, keep them out of your crew seats. Don't worry about me after 10 years, I am getting out of this industry, too many morons for my liking.
PBR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

PBR-

Since no SKYW pilot has the courage or ability to answer this...maybe you can....

Why can Jerry have a labor contract for his employment but not for the pilots?

Also, after the SKYW pilots get thier quick upgrade then what? Goals obtained are not motivators!!

 

[JoeMerchant]

PBR-

Since no SKYW pilot has the courage or ability to answer this...maybe you can....

Another attack on a fine pilot group..... Keep up the attacks..... that will get a lot of YES voters...

Why can Jerry have a labor contract for his employment but not for the pilots?

Jerry isn't represented by a union, but he has a legally binding contract.... Jerry also has more leverage than pilots because it is more difficult to replace him...... That is the single biggest difference..

If you want to affect change in that arena, then we need to address why we are so easy to replace.... It doesn't have anything to do with ALPA's code of ethics....

Also, after the SKYW pilots get thier quick upgrade then what? Goals obtained are not motivators!!

The motivation is to become a "real" airline pilot..... You know the ones that fly "real" airplanes..... You really are out of touch with reality Rez..... these kids are motivated by becoming real major pilots...... That is their motivation..... This is the curse of the "master/apprentace" system we have created for ourselves...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Another attack on a fine pilot group..... Keep up the attacks..... that will get a lot of YES voters...

Sorry Joe... I just have asked the question multiple times to the confident ALPA naysayers and no one replies... tI thought the ignoring was rude..

Jerry isn't represented by a union, but he has a legally binding contract.... Jerry also has more leverage than pilots because it is more difficult to replace him...... That is the single biggest difference..

that is management kool aid Joe... we live in America... CEO's are a dime a dozen... he has a contract to pay him out when he fails...

If you want to affect change in that arena, then we need to address why we are so easy to replace.... It doesn't have anything to do with ALPA's code of ethics....

Not talking about ethics here Joey... that is the other thread... put down the juice...

The motivation is to become a "real" airline pilot..... You know the ones that fly "real" airplanes..... You really are out of touch with reality Rez..... these kids are motivated by becoming real major pilots...... That is their motivation..... This is the curse of the "master/apprentace" system we have created for ourselves...

Sounds like more me me me to me... maybe if they don't get what they want they can sue ALPA...

Hey Joey... why not be a lawsuit consultant for pissed off ALPA pilots... you can give them the roadmap to sue.. for a me me me fee of course...

 

[JoeMerchant]

that is management kool aid Joe... we live in America... CEO's are a dime a dozen... he has a contract to pay him out when he fails...

OK, so CEO's are a "dime a dozen", and they don't have a union..... Yet they negotiate great contracts that pay large sums of money.....

Meanwhile....

Most airline pilots are members of ALPA and continue to take paycuts.......

Then you wonder why the Skywest pilots passed on ALPA's "services"....

You are beginning to answer your own question.....

It's all about leverage in negotiations..... not about ALPA..... Are you interested in getting the leverage back, or are you content to threaten and attack Skywest pilots because they don't see value in ALPA.....

 

[ATR Pirate]

For those that voted "Yes", I'm sorry. Hopefully you will get lucky and leave Skywest to greener pastures. A friend of mine just had a medical emergency and with ALPAs help, they have chartered a private jet to fly him almost half way around the world to get him to a good hospital of his choosing. I don't think SAPA would do that, do you?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Greener pastures....you gotta be kidding me!!?? who do you fly for? i can't imagine it being better than skywest! skywest is even better now that we don't have to worry about that ALPA horse*%*%.....yeah maybe we'll become better like ASA...or comair...or freedom...hahaha what a joke man

 

[ratherbeflyen]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Greener pastures....you gotta be kidding me!!?? who do you fly for? i can't imagine it being better than skywest! skywest is even better now that we don't have to worry about that ALPA horse*%*%.....

Wow. Can I present you with this statement in about 20 years?

 

[Erlanger]

Wow. Can I present you with this statement in about 20 years?

For 35 years and countless ALPA drives, we've been hearing about how Uncle Jerry is going to f&#k us over and still Skywest has always either been near or at the top with pay and work rules.

 

[rightseatjocky]

I won't even give it 20 years, how about 1 or 2 when they are bitching because JA shoves it up their butts because he can do whatever he wants to now.
Wait, I read another thread just the other day about skywest bitching about something. Hmm that didn't last long.
Go ahead and praise SAPA. They are a joke, lying in bed with JA and giving that a$$ what he wants.
Skywest fires 2 a month on average, why, because they can. Do you think Alpa would let that happen? I am thinking.. no friggen way.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

For 35 years and countless ALPA drives, we've been hearing about how Uncle Jerry is going to f&#k us over and still Skywest has always either been near or at the top with pay and work rules.

He has been... you just don't think he is.... do you have an Economic and Financial Analysis department to review your pay and work rules to provide critical review? ALPA does.. and it is the same dept that the APA, SWAPA, IPA and NPA uses...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

OK, so CEO's are a "dime a dozen", and they don't have a union..... Yet they negotiate great contracts that pay large sums of money.....

Its nioce to see you learning Joe....

Meanwhile....

Most airline pilots are members of ALPA and continue to take paycuts.......

Continue? Who is still taking pay cuts Joe? And so are the SKYW pilots.. with inflation... and 70 seats for 50...

Then you wonder why the Skywest pilots passed on ALPA's "services"....

SKYW pilots passed on ALPA for the same reason why most ALPA pilots don't like ALPA... they view the organization in terms of what is in it for them...

You are beginning to answer your own question.....

It's all about leverage in negotiations.....

If that is ture then how to the SKYW pilots negotiate?

not about ALPA..... Are you interested in getting the leverage back,

See.. all you are talkinag about is leverage for YOU. I am talking about effectiveness on the national and internional scene...

or are you content to threaten and attack Skywest pilots because they don't see value in ALPA.....

Nice try Joe... I haven't threatened any Skywest pilot. My opinons might have been strong... but there are no threats...

 

[joe_pilot]

I won't even give it 20 years, how about 1 or 2 when they are bitching because JA shoves it up their butts because he can do whatever he wants to now.
Wait, I read another thread just the other day about skywest bitching about something. Hmm that didn't last long.
Go ahead and praise SAPA. They are a joke, lying in bed with JA and giving that a$$ what he wants.
Skywest fires 2 a month on average, why, because they can. Do you think Alpa would let that happen? I am thinking.. no friggen way.

Ok, so 24 pilots in the past year, right? Name one quarter of them. PM me if you like. Name 6 pilots that have been fired in the past 12 months without cause. You can’t because IT JUST DIDN’T HAPPEN!!!

I voted "yes" for a number of reasons that I pointed out in another post. It included wrongful termination, yes. But that has been a very rare event here. I am so sick and tired of all of the claims made by SOME ALPA supporters. You guys are selling it like snake oil.

I voted "yes" for ALPA on its merits, but there are pros AND cons. It took a lot of effort to get past the spin and get to the real issues to do a genuine analysis to make a decision. I fear it was fear mongering and overblown anecdotal accounts like yours that turned most of the 65% off to ALPA.

Those of you who were rational and discussed pros and cons, thank you so much for your efforts. We certainly owe you a debt of gratitude.

The rest of you loud-mouthed SOB's, thanks for convincing the 65%. You might want to try a different tactic next time.

Fly Safe.

-JP

PS For the record, the company lackeys did their share of BS Spin too.