ALL Flying will performed by AA pilots

[YourPilotFriend]

Where do I sign up for this union?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

..... don't really care how you feel about it Rez.... Members of the ASA MEC have said it helped us here at ASA...... That's all I'm concerned about......

Who Joey? Names? Do you have adocumented quote... or was it just a verbal comment to pacify you???

 

[jke406]

I'm confused by this thread. Why would any regional pilot think they have any leverage over what the mainline pilots want? Isn't that why almost everyone wants to progress to the mainline?

Otherwise, all the folks who built up time, paid their dues, and went through the process would be clamoring to earn a fraction of the pay with a fraction of the QOL at a regional. Am I wrong?

 

[AA717driver]

When Eagle approached AA about a merged list PRE 9/11, AA laughed the "rookies" out the door. When AA approached AE about merging the list AFTER 9/11 APA wanted it to be a staple job with a complete bump and flush of the Eagle pilots to get the AA pilots off the street. That's pretty f-ing arrogant, but I do respect APA's attempt to best represent their pilots. The part that was unpalatable was....after a total bump, when the economy turned around, they wanted to be able to hire pilots off the street "AHEAD OF THE EAGLE PILOTS" on the list because they said it wasn't fair to their old squadron buddies to have to start at AA on a SAAB. WAAAAAAH! I'm sorry, but APA doesn't represent pilots that don't work for the company, even if they were in the squadron together.

They had a lot of chances to control all the flying, but greed got the best of them.

Bull. APA did not want a "complete bump and flush" after 9/11. In fact, they offered to limit flowbacks to a total of 125. The Eagle MEC refused, stating they were going to stop ANY AA pilot from flowing back.

We know how THAT worked. We've gone over this time and time again.

This 'urban legend' stuff is what prevents any meaningful dialogue from taking place.

BTW, I have personally talked to Eagle guys who would accept nothing less than DOH at AA. This is far from one-sided.

Gotta run. I've got my own integration to defend...TC

 

[~~~^~~~]

Who Joey? Names? Do you have adocumented quote... or was it just a verbal comment to pacify you???

Rez, I heard the same statements from the MEC and former Status Reps (with the exception of the two FO Reps who I've not ever talked to). But to put this in context, these are pretty much the same people who drafted the PID and who were RJDC supporters back in the early days.

 

[JoeMerchant]

OK, agreed, law of the jungle is effective and practiced in most jurisdictions. But, wasn't that what the RJDC was trying to fix?

>Law of the Jungle = small jet pilots have no rights
>ALPA M&F policy = very high probability of staple with ineffective and uneven application on the policy
>RJDC preferred = fair and enforced application of the policies on the books, with an independent judiciary to review. Very high probability of staple with protections and fences.

While I understand the differences, I do not know why you would support the "everyone looks out for themselves" when you consider the outcome of a Delta v/s anyone else battle.

Fins, I don't support the "everyone looks out for themselves" as the "best" solution...... rather I have accepted it as the current way of doing business within ALPA.....

World peace would be great...... but it ain't going to happen...... neither is a single list or "brand scope"..... The elephants have made the bed and we all have to sleep in it now.....

 

[~~~^~~~]

I'm still not giving up on the idea of an inclusive union.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Who Joey? Names? Do you have adocumented quote... or was it just a verbal comment to pacify you???

The senior most member of the ASA MEC.... he has been doing ALPA work for many years.... Of course he is an ASA "lifer" as am I.... so I'm sure our opinions don't really matter to the "regionals are just stepping stone jobs" group.....

Nobody on the MEC says anything to "pacify" me...... They know better than that....

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'm still not giving up on the idea of an inclusive union.

I'm not giving up on World Peace either...... but I want a big Army with lots of weapons pointed at the enemy...... I can't afford to trust my career to the "hopes" of a true "inclusive union"..... If it happens great...... if not then we all need to defend our turf.....

If there is any hope of ALPA reforming, I believe it's very existance will have to be challenged..... Many times that is the only way to effect meaningful reform......

Politicians aren't going to change ALPA..... only leaders will.... and I don't see many of them....

 

[CopilotDoug]

plus the APA can afford to wave a big stick around... they don't have responsibility of serving many groups with different needs.

Which is one of many reasons why your sacred ALPO sucks the big one.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Anyone else miss 737Pylt?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The senior most member of the ASA MEC.... he has been doing ALPA work for many years.... Of course he is an ASA "lifer" as am I.... so I'm sure our opinions don't really matter to the "regionals are just stepping stone jobs" group.....

Nobody on the MEC says anything to "pacify" me...... They know better than that....

Who Joey....name names...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Which is one of many reasons why your sacred ALPO sucks the big one.

So you think there should be no representation? Or all representation should be in house, with no central or 'national'.

If so, then please explain the pros and cons of such a change?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Who Joey....name names...

DU....... WF will also tell you that the DAL MEC was hot to get J4Js, but that the lawsuit was a factor......

Sorry Rez.... but it did affect the way ALPA and DALPA handled things with ASA and CMR....

 

[JoeMerchant]

So you think there should be no representation? Or all representation should be in house, with no central or 'national'.

If so, then please explain the pros and cons of such a change?

..... of course one of the downsides to having an in house union is not being able to use DFR lawsuits to keep the mainline union in line......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Sorry Rez.... but it did affect the way ALPA and DALPA handled things with ASA and CMR....

Sometimes the methods aren't worth the results.... you lost something along the way Joey.... creditibility, respect, trust, reputation, integrity...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

..... of course one of the downsides to having an in house union is not being able to use DFR lawsuits to keep the mainline union in line......

Something to be proud of I am sure...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Sometimes the methods aren't worth the results.... you lost something along the way Joey.... creditibility, respect, trust, reputation, integrity...

...... lost with you and the mainline folks..... don't really care..... We kept our seniority in tact, and changed the way ALPA will have to deal with scope in the future..... Well worth it even if you don't respect me in the morning.......

I'll say it again...... I'm not concerned with what you think..... I am doing what I think is best...... If you don't like it or respect it...... that's tough......

 

[JoeMerchant]

Something to be proud of I am sure...

Not a matter of pride...... rather a necessary evil in this dog eat dog industry....... I'll take any leverage I can get.......

I bet the Eagle pilots wish they had some DFR to hold over the APA pilots..... but they don't..... The APA is free to screw the Eagle pilots over without any DFR concerns......

 

[PCL_128]

Who Joey....name names...

He's not lying. I know of at least one current MEC member that believes what Joey is saying. I respect the guy, but I think he's off base on this. I don't think DALPA ever had any plans for J4J.