ALL Flying will performed by AA pilots

[FlyWolf]

wow, what a concept, someone wake me up please, I must be dreaming

 

[momalley81]

Never met him. I met Ralph Hunter a few times and thought he was a great guy, and I didn't like the way Lloyd ran against him. Also wasn't a fan of the illegal work action that Lloyd took part in and still defends. Despite that, if he's actually able to capture back any scope, even if it's just 70-seat scope, then I'll be thoroughly impressed.

Ralph was/is a management suck-up/wannabe. I am sure he was/is a nice guy but he is not the type of person that you want leading your union. Especially when AMR is at the other side of the table.

Furthermore, Ralph didn't run a squeaky clean campaign either. Most of it was scare tactic BS that simply wasn't true.

All that and the fact that AMR management walked all over the APA pilots while Hunter was in office, and yet he did very little about it.

As for the illegal job action I tend to agree with you. However, the APA had to so something, and what they did do WORKED. AMR later admitted that the whole thing was a contract violation on their part.

Lloyd is a militant. That is the type of guy you need when dealing with AMR management. Sorry to say it but that is the way it is.

 

[PCL_128]

Ralph was/is a management suck-up/wannabe. I am sure he was/is a nice guy but he is not the type of person that you want leading your union

That's exactly the kinds of statements that I was talking about. Anyone that's talked to him would know that he isn't a management "wannabe" or suck-up. He merely has different ideas about how to reach goals. This is a different debate, though. Lloyd got elected, and I supported him and the rest of the APA pilots 100% while you fight for real scope language.

 

[FR8mastr]

Bravo APA

Even if they dont get it all this time, it is a huge step in the right direction!!

 

[momalley81]

That's exactly the kinds of statements that I was talking about. Anyone that's talked to him would know that he isn't a management "wannabe" or suck-up. He merely has different ideas about how to reach goals.

His actions spoke louder than his words, and AMR management walked all over him.

Again, I have nothing against Ralph and I am sure he is a nice guy but he is not the type of guy you want leading your union against AMR.

And I agree this is not the time or place for that debate. It is water under the bridge now.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

If APA mangement doesn't want to play strike them and end them... that's enough... time to end this $hit. Our managment at UAL just gave the stockholders 250 million of our money...my strike fund is ready and I'm tired or the greed and the bull$hit from upper management...I"ll be happy to walk your picket line! Shut these m-fers down

 

[Dizel8]

Way to go APA, this could get really interesting and I hope you all achieve a great contract!

 

[luckytohaveajob]

One List per Brand

One seniority list per brand.

It could be done during the upcoming merger season.

Any airlines wholly owned subsidiary should be stapled to the bottom of the mainline list. The regionals would go for it. The majors would go for it.

The majors should also be forced to buy a majority stake in all the branded regionals which should then be stapled under the wholly owned. The major would operate the newly acquired majority stake in the regional. The majors could finance the recently acquired regional through future raises of the mainline pilots and regional pilots creating new ESOP agreements creating a one for all, all for one mentality.

There will be a price to pay for these type of arrangements but there is benefit to gain by all the employees.

Ownership and control over your brands flying is worth it.

 

[Flyby1206]

I hope this happens, but what will be more important at the negotiating table? Pay raise or all flying on one list? Tough times ahead

 

[EatinRamen]

Wow, I'm glad AA's union has the balls to put this on the table. I've always argued that sub-contracting flying to a regional costs more money than keeping it all in-house. They claim that people costs are lower at a regional, but then they end up paying for the regional's overhead expenses and paying their profit margins.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Pay raise or all flying on one list? Tough times ahead

I think you can get both through ESOP ownership in the new company. What you sacrifice in pay could be created in ownership.

Of course management bonus programs would have to be ended. Base pay for management only!!!

 

[Dizel8]

"Any airlines wholly owned subsidiary should be stapled to the bottom of the mainline list. The regionals would go for it. The majors would go for it."

I should doubt that very much, ask a senior Eagle Captain if he is good with that, being stapled to the bottom of AA. If you fence him off perhaps, because otherwise, you might have a junior AA pilot decide to go fly the RJ, more money, better life,it would be one list after all.

I think "one list , all the flying" is a great idea, but implementing it would be very hard, due to the fact the genie already has left the bottle. Certainly starting as a F/O on the RJ ending as a 787 Captain would be the way to go, but how do we get there?

 

[longhaul]

It's been done before

About ten years ago the pilots of KLM's regional airline, KLM Cityhopper, were merged onto the mainline senority list, and all positions were made eligible for bid by both groups. There were significant problems, including a lawsuit by a group of regional pilots who thought that they should have been given date-of-hire, but now that the dust has settled the system works great. New hires for the Cityhopper fleet can now look forward to someday making the big bucks, and those who want to have four stripes quickly can fly the little Fokkers. For the company it meant an end to attrition at the regional, and they gained the ability to put whatever size airplane on whatever route they want to.

 

[N2264J]

Re: All Flying will performed by AA pilots

Thank God someone is standing up and fighting for real scope language.

The Comair and ASA MECs fought this battle in 2000 with the PID, filed in accordance with ALPA's Merger Policy after Delta bought both airlines. What we got for our trouble was the lie that circulated claiming we were demanding DOH. To this very day, we are rebuked for our insolence.

Now that the APA is hinting at it and:

Oh, the wisdom!

Thank God!

It's about time!

Praise be to Jesus - somebody gets it!

It's a step in the right direction.

They have balls!

I must be dreaming!

Job security - well done.

These guys act like a union!

At a point in time when we actually could have stopped the bleeding, we were condemned by the mainliners* for our arrogance.

* (and a bunch of regional pilots too)

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

How much is this going to cost the APA pilots?