AirTran pilots

[CitationLover]

ALPA's merger policy is NOT DOH, where are you getting this from? Did AAA and AWA get DOH? It is "career expectations", yet you keep equating ALPA to DOH. The MEH MEC wants DOH, but if the circumstances were reversed you'd be arguing the same thing. They're doing their job and arguing for the most for whom they represent (which is more than what the BoD is doing with this TA).

Call management on their empty threat. No "merger" protection, who cares we're merging with a company not even 20% the size of us!

 

[Lear70]

ALPA's merger policy is NOT DOH, where are you getting this from?

I didn't say it was. I simply believe it would be a lot easier for MEH to push their agenda with both carriers being ALPA than with two separate unions with AirTran being the acquiring carrier.

Did AAA and AWA get DOH? It is "career expectations", yet you keep equating ALPA to DOH.

Yeah,,, sure,,, "career expectations" was what the AAA pilots got.

AAA/AWA is a p*ss-poor example of ALPA merger policy, simply because ALPA was taken out of the loop when AAA made the idiotic decision to request binding arbitration.

The MEH MEC wants DOH, but if the circumstances were reversed you'd be arguing the same thing.

No, I wouldn't. Go back several years where we were having an integration discussion at my last regional when I was there and read my posts. I have always been a "career expectations" believer. The MEH MEC is smoking crack to believe for even a second that they'll get that, and is barking up much the same tree that the AAA MEC already got beat with like a red-headed step child, but I digress.

They're doing their job and arguing for the most for whom they represent (which is more than what the BoD is doing with this TA).

True. But the AAA MEC tried that approach and it got them nowhere but screwed in a very large way. Have to be very careful with that kind of hard-nosed approach...

Call management on their empty threat. No "merger" protection, who cares we're merging with a company not even 20% the size of us!

Gotta educate the pilot group on that very thing,,, That's also part of Section 1, along with Scope, and I just finished the last of that section and it's prepared to print; waiting for the other guys to chime in on R&I, Scheduling, and other stuff that's a big flag, put it all together, print a bunch of copies, and head down to ATL with it.

We have enough going on without trying to change unions. If people want it later on, then wait until we're not staring down the barrel of a gun (T.A.) One crisis at a time, please.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

That sounds like something taken out of context. Everybody knows that isn't true . . . and it would be suicide for the Company to try to do something like that . . . . . talk about a guarantee to get the Teamsters or ALPA on the property!

I think the Company has already overplayed their hand on this one, but only time will tell what the end result will be.

.

Someone (NC Guy) told some people at the road show this morning that if we don't vote this in, then we don't have a contract at all and the company can do whatever they want. Flat out lie. I want a refund for my dues.

 

[Just thinking]

Reading through the scope time and time again there is the caviate that does not to include turboprops, the outside flying is limited to 20% of total ASM's (with half of that to 86 seaters).... Is not Lynx operating Q400's? Turboprop with >70 seats and very cost efficient. Not saying it will happen but we need to have anguage that protects us from all avenues of approach. Nothing with more than 50 seats unless an AirTran pilot is flying it. Boost the pay scale for anything smaller than the 717/737 and slide the scale (one to the right) for the 717/737 to offset dwell time penalties. Reserve section needs to be totally redone. Very confusing at best. Wish we could all get together and sit around a table and hash out each and every section over a marathon weekend to compare old/new contracts and provide direction for the new NC.....

 

[USARET]

Someone (NC Guy) told some people at the road show this morning that if we don't vote this in, then we don't have a contract at all and the company can do whatever they want. Flat out lie. I want a refund for my dues.

If this is actually the case it's no wonder the NC got their a$$es handed to them, they don't even understand RLA basics! I say recall everyone of them! I have absolutely no confidence that our union leadership has the ability or intestinal fortitude to see this through! Unbelievable!

 

[Nindiri]

Someone (NC Guy) told some people at the road show this morning that if we don't vote this in, then we don't have a contract at all and the company can do whatever they want. Flat out lie. I want a refund for my dues.

Did anyone call him out on it?

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

If this is actually the case it's no wonder the NC got their a$$es handed to them, they don't even understand RLA basics! I say recall everyone of them! I have absolutely no confidence that our union leadership has the ability or intestinal fortitude to see this through! Unbelievable!

I know two people that were there and heard it first hand. Seriously......I want a refund.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Did anyone call him out on it?

One of the guys didn't actually know it wasn't true...and the other said he tried but couldn't get a word in. It's kinda scary....people CAN be convinced (scared into) to vote "yes" by this kind of disinformation and fear tactic.

 

[USARET]

The lone FO on the BOD has posted his letter of support on the NPA web site. He states that some FO's have complained about the 4th year FO pay being less than Delta's (actually it's less up to about year 9), his response.... don't worry about it we will all be captains by then! I am truly mortified at the ignorance being displayed by our President and BOD. After reading that letter I am convinced without a doubt that the BOD is in way over their collective heads!

 

[beech1900kid]

The lone FO on the BOD has posted his letter of support on the NPA web site. He states that some FO's have complained about the 4th year FO pay being less than Delta's (actually it's less up to about year 9), his response.... don't worry about it we will all be captains by then! I am truly mortified at the ignorance being displayed by our President and BOD. After reading that letter I am convinced without a doubt that the BOD is in way over their collective heads!

I just read the letter. All I can say is WOW! These guys have their collective heads in the sand. The letter in question is weak at best.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

I just read the letter. All I can say is WOW! These guys have their collective heads in the sand. The letter in question is weak at best.

Maybe he wrote it with a gun to his head???

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

I have no problem with the CA argument. As long as it is written in the contract, at the third year I get CAs pay regardless of seat. Then I will sign this sh!t.

But thing is we wont upgrade anyway because of what is going to be given away with scope.:uzi:

 

[bladeusa]

that letter is ridiculous..
is he crazy???
excited about a concessionary ta?
i wasnt for a recall.. until now.. i think he's lost his mind.
i could pick apart each line of that letter.. but whats the point.
open the polls.. vote this down.. and start over.

 

[wood pecker]

Look under CDOs in the TA, we gave up 3 days off following 1 CDO. We should have left it at the 3 days off but allowed us to waive the 3 days since it was not a FAR.

Did you see the confession part in the TA. " I confesss that I was paid off to endorse this crappy TA. I am afraid I have failed everyone and want to refund your union dues that we pissed away. Actually most of your dues paid for many free sandwiches for newhires and the necessary 3 NPA speakers per class. Oh yeah thanks for the free Piccadilly meals. I could hardly discuss the TA b/c I usually ordered 2 meals for myself since they were free plus I deserved them since we will all make $200/ hour. However we will only be able to fly 2 hours/month North America not included."

 

[CitationLover]

I didn't say it was. I simply believe it would be a lot easier for MEH to push their agenda with both carriers being ALPA than with two separate unions with AirTran being the acquiring carrier.

tell that to AAA. midwest is the mergee, not the merger.

Yeah,,, sure,,, "career expectations" was what the AAA pilots got.

AAA/AWA is a p*ss-poor example of ALPA merger policy, simply because ALPA was taken out of the loop when AAA made the idiotic decision to request binding arbitration.

agreed, however the AAA furloughees had very little in "career" expectations. how would they have treated Delta if a buyout had gone through? they're self serving and are simply sabre rattling to show this. how about the AWA FO's who were looking at much faster upgrade times (with the new 190's) only to see all of that disappear and most of the new equipment going to the east.

True. But the AAA MEC tried that approach and it got them nowhere but screwed in a very large way. Have to be very careful with that kind of hard-nosed approach...

well to be honest the air tran pilot group has made overtures regarding fair and balanced integration issues. the midwest pilot group is REALLY small merging into a 5 times as large a company versus a larger AAA being merged into AWA. MEH MEC has little leverage in this compared to the sides in the AWA/AAA merger.

Gotta educate the pilot group on that very thing,,, That's also part of Section 1, along with Scope, and I just finished the last of that section and it's prepared to print; waiting for the other guys to chime in on R&I, Scheduling, and other stuff that's a big flag, put it all together, print a bunch of copies, and head down to ATL with it.

We have enough going on without trying to change unions. If people want it later on, then wait until we're not staring down the barrel of a gun (T.A.) One crisis at a time, please.

keep up the good work. i agree an alpa transition would not be useful at this time.

once again, what does the NPA charge for dues?