AirTran pilots

[j41driver]

This is absolutely true. I just spoke with a BOD member and he admitted that this thing is a turd. He told me to start recruiting now. We need people to be able to back up a no vote. E-MAIL THE SPC NOW.

Done. Now open up the voting so I can cast my big, fat, F!@# NO!!!!!!

 

[jetdawg]

How much better or worse do you think DP would have done instead of AP. I know everybody said AP all the way, Peck will send us the biggest POS known to man. If we all think AP TA sux how would DP have been. Things that make you go hummmm. Being company would it have been any better because looking at this it can't be much worse.

Actually had a FO who was leaning towards a yes vote. All I say is thank god for 1900 miles of straight and level SEA to ATL. FO voting NO now.

 

[Ty Webb]

How much better or worse do you think DP would have done instead of AP. I know everybody said AP all the way

Voting in a management pilot would have weakened the pilot group's position even further . . . in any event, let's stay focused on the here and now.

Who are these senior Captains that are alleged "yes" voters? Paully Walnuts needs to have a little pep talk wit' 'em.

 

[Citrusflyer]

How much better or worse do you think DP would have done instead of AP. I know everybody said AP all the way, Peck will send us the biggest POS known to man. If we all think AP TA sux how would DP have been. Things that make you go hummmm. Being company would it have been any better because looking at this it can't be much worse.

First, the question about DP is moot. He didn't win the election.

Second, how could it be worse than what we have now? Would he have brought us a concessionary TA with the full support of the Pres (and the BoD)......oh wait....nevermind!!!

Two years of extra dues down the drain. What an insult!

 

[crosscut]

I've worked with these guys and I would never for one minute question their motives.

Then why are they pedaling this BS TA (out of the CPO)? MS told a group yesterday "the company will impose their own CBA following an impasse if the TA is rejected." Everybody knows this to be inaccurate & a scare tactic. Why would he be doing it if he did not have an underlying motive? If he is just regurgitating the Company's propaganda, then he (and the BOD) is as uninformed as he is a sell out. Do you really want someone like that representing you during a merger?

 

[Ty Webb]

Then why are they pedaling this BS TA (out of the CPO)? MS told a group yesterday "the company will impose their own CBA following an impasse if the TA is rejected."

That sounds like something taken out of context. Everybody knows that isn't true . . . and it would be suicide for the Company to try to do something like that . . . . . talk about a guarantee to get the Teamsters or ALPA on the property!

I think the Company has already overplayed their hand on this one, but only time will tell what the end result will be.

.

 

[Capt.LongThrust]

It is time for the pilot group to show the management who really runs an airline. Leave ten early? Right. Push to roll the wheels? Right. Ten knot taxi. Two engine taxi. This TA has management winning everything they wanted. I would like to hear a simple answer on what the NC had negotiated for the pilot group.

Seen Goodfellas? FUPM!!!

 

[Ty Webb]

This management team sure knows how to squander the goodwill of the pilot group. I think they will be surprised to find the amount of anger they have caused. They spent the last 5 years hiring guys from the top of the stack, who could have gone anywhere, but came here thinking that this management was going to work with the pilot group, (a la SWA) and instead now sees what we are dealing with.

It's going to be a very interesting 6 months. Hold on to your hats.


.

 

[Whataburger]

You could always go with ALPA so you can pay more dues and get even less results.

 

[Eagle757shark]

Then why are they pedaling this BS TA (out of the CPO)? MS told a group yesterday "the company will impose their own CBA following an impasse if the TA is rejected." Everybody knows this to be inaccurate & a scare tactic. Why would he be doing it if he did not have an underlying motive? If he is just regurgitating the Company's propaganda, then he (and the BOD) is as uninformed as he is a sell out. Do you really want someone like that representing you during a merger?

WOW, this guy has no clue about collective bargaining agreements if he made this statement. Airtran is not in Ch.11 and no one can impose a CBA on us just because they don't like the outcome of a vote. We have a right to evaluate the TA and vote accordingly. When this TA goes down, the union will have options. The first plan should be to throw out the negotiating committee and sit AP and the BODs down and make it clear what this pilot group wants. If they are not willing to represent the interest of this pilot group, then the pilot group should recall AP and the BODs! Folks there is no rush to get this TA done if it will make our QOL miserable during the next 6 years. I say six years because we all know that when the contract is amendable it will take a couple of years again to come up with a new TA. Again, we can do better we control our own destiny. Look at what NWA did today, they are replacing their DC-9 aircraft with CRJ-900 airplanes. Those aircraft will be flown by a regional carrier. FOLKS, we have got to protect scope, if we want to protect our careers! Stay unified and focus, its going to be a bumpy ride!

 

[Lear70]

You could always go with ALPA so you can pay more dues and get even less results.

*snicker*

Actually, that may not be such a far-fetched idea.

IF this thing gets shot down and IF the Midwest merger goes forward, ALPA certainly won't be put on property anytime soon, as the NPA pilots will want to make sure a seniority integration wouldn't happen.

AFTER that integration is complete, if we're still in negotiations, you might see some more action if the company doesn't move to continue to negotiate in good faith.

ALPA's war coffer for strike funds is MUCH bigger than we could ever hope to match alone, and their resources are much more extensive as well.

I'm not pushing any such thing, just saying that if we get to that type of end-game, we might benefit from (I didn't say "need") deeper pockets...

Just a thought.

 

[njcapt]

That sounds like something taken out of context. Everybody knows that isn't true . . . and it would be suicide for the Company to try to do something like that . . . . . talk about a guarantee to get the Teamsters or ALPA on the property!

That threat had been delivered during management's propaganda meetings (the re-education campaign in the CP's boardroom) and has been verified by others as having come out of MS's mouth, as well. It seems that very few in the NPA leadership have even a basic knowledge of the RLA. We couldn't get a release from the mediator if we took hostages at gunpoint.

I have heard from my homies in ALPA management that if the merger goes through, they're going to put a full court press on to get the AirTran pilots over to the dark side. At this point, I can't imagine how it could be any worse.

 

[mnboyev]

I think we'll keep our beloved NPA and make em fix it....

 

[Lear70]

That threat had been delivered during management's propaganda meetings (the re-education campaign in the CP's boardroom) and has been verified by others as having come out of MS's mouth, as well. It seems that very few in the NPA leadership have even a basic knowledge of the RLA. We couldn't get a release from the mediator if we took hostages at gunpoint.

I have heard from my homies in ALPA management that if the merger goes through, they're going to put a full court press on to get the AirTran pilots over to the dark side. At this point, I can't imagine how it could be any worse.

That doesn't surprise me much that the NPA is "claiming" that. At this point I would APPRECIATE being immediately put on 30-day cooling off and able to engage in self-help in August, as it would be the financial equivalent of cutting off your nose to spite your face for the company.

Buy your passes in advance for your family vacations, everyone gets some time off with *some* pay for strike benefits right before the kids go back to school (and in the middle of the summer peak travel time = $$$ lost to AirTran), and come up a couple days each week for picketing and meetings to meet your strike obligations. Heck, you could vacation on the beach in Florida and drive in to do it at headquarters in MCO.

Right now would be the perfect time as well, with SO many people p*ssed off to minimize the number of people who would cross the picket lines as well as trying to win over the MEH BOD...

This is so stupid, I can't imagine how anyone would actually fall for that line.

Incidentally, right now would be suicide for us, as a pilot group, to bring ALPA into the mix.

I don't know about you, but DOH with Midwest doesn't sound very appetizing...

I agree... methinks staying separate, replacing the NC and asking AP to step down, sending them all back in with orders to STRICTLY follow the Wilson Polling and NOT ONE DIME LESS and waiting for something better is the game of the day.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

I like the idea of in-house union. Let's just make it stronger like SWA and AMR.

Midwest won't be the last merger here.

 

[CitationLover]

ALPA's merger policy is NOT DOH, where are you getting this from? Did AAA and AWA get DOH? It is "career expectations", yet you keep equating ALPA to DOH. The MEH MEC wants DOH, but if the circumstances were reversed you'd be arguing the same thing. They're doing their job and arguing for the most for whom they represent (which is more than what the BoD is doing with this TA).

Call management on their empty threat. No "merger" protection, who cares we're merging with a company not even 20% the size of us!

 

[Lear70]

ALPA's merger policy is NOT DOH, where are you getting this from?

I didn't say it was. I simply believe it would be a lot easier for MEH to push their agenda with both carriers being ALPA than with two separate unions with AirTran being the acquiring carrier.

Did AAA and AWA get DOH? It is "career expectations", yet you keep equating ALPA to DOH.

Yeah,,, sure,,, "career expectations" was what the AAA pilots got.

AAA/AWA is a p*ss-poor example of ALPA merger policy, simply because ALPA was taken out of the loop when AAA made the idiotic decision to request binding arbitration.

The MEH MEC wants DOH, but if the circumstances were reversed you'd be arguing the same thing.

No, I wouldn't. Go back several years where we were having an integration discussion at my last regional when I was there and read my posts. I have always been a "career expectations" believer. The MEH MEC is smoking crack to believe for even a second that they'll get that, and is barking up much the same tree that the AAA MEC already got beat with like a red-headed step child, but I digress.

They're doing their job and arguing for the most for whom they represent (which is more than what the BoD is doing with this TA).

True. But the AAA MEC tried that approach and it got them nowhere but screwed in a very large way. Have to be very careful with that kind of hard-nosed approach...

Call management on their empty threat. No "merger" protection, who cares we're merging with a company not even 20% the size of us!

Gotta educate the pilot group on that very thing,,, That's also part of Section 1, along with Scope, and I just finished the last of that section and it's prepared to print; waiting for the other guys to chime in on R&I, Scheduling, and other stuff that's a big flag, put it all together, print a bunch of copies, and head down to ATL with it.

We have enough going on without trying to change unions. If people want it later on, then wait until we're not staring down the barrel of a gun (T.A.) One crisis at a time, please.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

That sounds like something taken out of context. Everybody knows that isn't true . . . and it would be suicide for the Company to try to do something like that . . . . . talk about a guarantee to get the Teamsters or ALPA on the property!

I think the Company has already overplayed their hand on this one, but only time will tell what the end result will be.

.

Someone (NC Guy) told some people at the road show this morning that if we don't vote this in, then we don't have a contract at all and the company can do whatever they want. Flat out lie. I want a refund for my dues.

 

[Just thinking]

Reading through the scope time and time again there is the caviate that does not to include turboprops, the outside flying is limited to 20% of total ASM's (with half of that to 86 seaters).... Is not Lynx operating Q400's? Turboprop with >70 seats and very cost efficient. Not saying it will happen but we need to have anguage that protects us from all avenues of approach. Nothing with more than 50 seats unless an AirTran pilot is flying it. Boost the pay scale for anything smaller than the 717/737 and slide the scale (one to the right) for the 717/737 to offset dwell time penalties. Reserve section needs to be totally redone. Very confusing at best. Wish we could all get together and sit around a table and hash out each and every section over a marathon weekend to compare old/new contracts and provide direction for the new NC.....

 

[USARET]

Someone (NC Guy) told some people at the road show this morning that if we don't vote this in, then we don't have a contract at all and the company can do whatever they want. Flat out lie. I want a refund for my dues.

If this is actually the case it's no wonder the NC got their a$$es handed to them, they don't even understand RLA basics! I say recall everyone of them! I have absolutely no confidence that our union leadership has the ability or intestinal fortitude to see this through! Unbelievable!