AirTran pilots will own the SW upgrades

[Roomwithaview]

Revisionists

You guys grasp at straws by any means possible all in order to attempt to bolster the case that the tranny, in some way shape or form, was equal to or better than SWA (then why were pilots leaving in droves to come here and elsewhere?) to continue to attempt to make the case that you all got "screwed" after you were "acquired".

Can we stop the d*ck measuring?

Does it make you feel better to make outlandish claims about SWA vs TRAN "The good, the bad and the ugly"

I can shoot holes in most of your wild comments and pick them off one by one but it gets old. Additionally, PCL, why do you even care any more? Or more succinctly-Why should we care what you have to say? You claim you're not coming over. So, while I won't go so far to state that your opinion doesn't matter, I will say that it shouldn't hold any level of import with anyone that remains. You're turning yourself into an insignificant dweeb the likes of a certain General on here or his alter ego OYS.

Additionally, I take issue with the way you've berated your MEC for getting you a much better deal than you deserved and they did so by being strategic, by playing hardball, and by strong arming those that had more mojo going into the deal.

That should be a lesson WE (all of us now joined together) should reflect on and learn from. Because, the stronger of the two negotiating committees did not survive. Instead, our QOL, PAY, BENNIEs etc are all being manufactured by the same weak sisters that couldn't get us a better deal than SL-10 which was a MUCH worse deal than SL-9 (for us)

SLI 1 vs SLI 2 is debatable. But, one cannot argue the furlough protection provided by SLI2 AND the much better RSW Global Seniority that was handed over by Kelly with nary a whimper from our emasculated union.

It's time to get back in the fight not against each other. The next buyout is coming and even your beloved RM acknowledges and admits that it's not in our (all of ours) best interest to have another tranny debacle go down where we RSW lose even more RSW pilot seniority.

If you can't wrap your arms around that then, Yes, you are not finished pi$$ing moaning and whining about the SLI and you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[Ty Webb]

Room, if you really want it to go away, then just shut your pie-hole and let people come to terms with it on their own. Rest assured, if you keep throwing mud and bullsh!t, people will respond.

 

[Roomwithaview]

6353 posts

Room, if you really want it to go away, then just shut your pie-hole and let people come to terms with it on their own. Rest assured, if you keep throwing mud and bullsh!t, people will respond.

of which I'm certain over 50% are pi$$ing and moaning about SWA and/or the ACQUISITION.

I don't GAS if it "goes away". What I do suggest is working "SMART" towards making sure we (RSW PILOTS) don't get f*cked again. The only way to do that is to acknowledge and learn from the mistakes of the past. First and foremost that we (RSW PILOTS) gave a ton-got nothing in return and totally f*cked ourselves by not having better contractual language (still not fixed) a weak d*ck NC, with an even weaker d*ck supporting cast back at the front office.

What's the game plan going forward oh great and omnipotent FLIFO thought leader?

 

[Ty Webb]

Blah-blah-blah.

I'm out.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Blah-blah-blah.

I'm out.

It's not gonna win you a better contract.
It's not gonna prevent a carbon copy of what just happened.

I'm suggesting that if you are in fact now (or will be in the future) a RSW pilot, to do everything in your power to protect and improve on what you have.

The wheels are coming off over here and burying your head in the sand won't fix it.

The same players that ran the SLI are running the show on the Section Six. If you think they "killed it" for RSW pilots, then, by all means, flip it on autopilot. If, however, you are man enough to admit that we may not have the sharpest tools in the shed working on what's going to set the course for the next however many years, and arguably (should we buy someone else-a highly likely possibility) the rest of our careers, then you might want to pull your seat forward and strap on your shoulder harnesses.

 

[HowardBorden]

It's not enough that decisions be justifiable to an individual, or even an individual pilot group. Those decisions need to be justifiable in light of the entire profession.

This is an absolutely ludicrous and ridiculous statement, but it certainly sheds a lot of light on your ALPA skewed vision of reality.

My decisions are only made with regard to how it will effect myself and my family alone. I would never expect someone else to attempt to interpret my personal needs and wants above their own when making career decisions. I won't make decisions based on what I think others might want or need and I would never presume that others do that for me. The one man one vote system works because each individual is different with differing desires and they vote accordingly.

"Those decisions need to be justifiable in light of the entire profession." My God man can't you understand that we can't all agree on what is justifiable to the entire profession. Your vision of justifiable and my vision of justifiable are vastly different I assure you.

 

[slaquer5]

Room, if you really want it to go away, then just shut your pie-hole and let people come to terms with it on their own. Rest assured, if you keep throwing mud and bullsh!t, people will respond.

Dude

Please take your own advice

You are a piece of work .

 

[PCL_128]

This is an absolutely ludicrous and ridiculous statement, but it certainly sheds a lot of light on your ALPA skewed vision of reality.

My decisions are only made with regard to how it will effect myself and my family alone. I would never expect someone else to attempt to interpret my personal needs and wants above their own when making career decisions. I won't make decisions based on what I think others might want or need and I would never presume that others do that for me. The one man one vote system works because each individual is different with differing desires and they vote accordingly.

"Those decisions need to be justifiable in light of the entire profession." My God man can't you understand that we can't all agree on what is justifiable to the entire profession. Your vision of justifiable and my vision of justifiable are vastly different I assure you.

I understand your thought process, but it doesn't fit in an organized labor environment. In short, with your way of looking at the world, you shouldn't be in a union. Unions are about not just the individual, but the collective.

 

[PCL_128]

You guys grasp at straws by any means possible all in order to attempt to bolster the case that the tranny, in some way shape or form, was equal to or better than SWA (then why were pilots leaving in droves to come here and elsewhere?) to continue to attempt to make the case that you all got "screwed" after you were "acquired".

Can we stop the d*ck measuring?

Does it make you feel better to make outlandish claims about SWA vs TRAN "The good, the bad and the ugly"

I can shoot holes in most of your wild comments and pick them off one by one but it gets old. Additionally, PCL, why do you even care any more? Or more succinctly-Why should we care what you have to say? You claim you're not coming over. So, while I won't go so far to state that your opinion doesn't matter, I will say that it shouldn't hold any level of import with anyone that remains. You're turning yourself into an insignificant dweeb the likes of a certain General on here or his alter ego OYS.

Additionally, I take issue with the way you've berated your MEC for getting you a much better deal than you deserved and they did so by being strategic, by playing hardball, and by strong arming those that had more mojo going into the deal.

That should be a lesson WE (all of us now joined together) should reflect on and learn from. Because, the stronger of the two negotiating committees did not survive. Instead, our QOL, PAY, BENNIEs etc are all being manufactured by the same weak sisters that couldn't get us a better deal than SL-10 which was a MUCH worse deal than SL-9 (for us)

SLI 1 vs SLI 2 is debatable. But, one cannot argue the furlough protection provided by SLI2 AND the much better RSW Global Seniority that was handed over by Kelly with nary a whimper from our emasculated union.

It's time to get back in the fight not against each other. The next buyout is coming and even your beloved RM acknowledges and admits that it's not in our (all of ours) best interest to have another tranny debacle go down where we RSW lose even more RSW pilot seniority.

If you can't wrap your arms around that then, Yes, you are not finished pi$$ing moaning and whining about the SLI and you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You're still talking about the SLI? Sorry, man, but I'm not interested. Old news. If you want to talk about contract talks, uniting the pilot group, etc., then let's discuss. But we've beaten the SLI horse to a bloody pulp, and nobody is changing anyone's mind about it. Waste of time.

 

[Roomwithaview]

You're still talking about the SLI? Sorry, man, but I'm not interested. Old news. If you want to talk about contract talks, uniting the pilot group, etc., then let's discuss. But we've beaten the SLI horse to a bloody pulp, and nobody is changing anyone's mind about it. Waste of time.

You're still wasting your time on subjects that don't/won't matter to you in 4 months?

Additionally, don't think the fact that you WANT to talk about the SLI when you want to do some SWA bashing and then you DON'T want to talk about it when you get called out on your BS.

Thanks for checking in FLIFO thought leader. Can I put my name in the hat even if I have only less than 500 posts?

 

[PCL_128]

You're still wasting your time on subjects that don't/won't matter to you in 4 months?

I have plenty of friends of AirTran, so the issues do matter to me, even if they will never affect me personally.

Additionally, don't think the fact that you WANT to talk about the SLI when you want to do some SWA bashing and then you DON'T want to talk about it when you get called out on your BS.

I don't talk about the SLI at all, anymore. It's an exercise in futility, and even the cathartic value in bitching about it has waned. Let it go.

 

[Nindiri]

A lot of good things here at SWA including pay, hotels, and other stuff, but who the hell came up with this pos open time/trip trading system? Hot, dot, snot, elitt, it's all crap. What took 5 minutes on the simple and elegant FLICA takes hours on this system and is similar to a visit to Hades. Slightly less hellish if you're really senior, but still the worst system I've ever seen. Could you guys not get something better by now?

 

[canyonblue]

A lot of good things here at SWA including pay, hotels, and other stuff, but who the hell came up with this pos open time/trip trading system? Hot, dot, snot, elitt, it's all crap. What took 5 minutes on the simple and elegant FLICA takes hours on this system and is similar to a visit to Hades. Slightly less hellish if you're really senior, but still the worst system I've ever seen. Could you guys not get something better by now?

It gets better when you know how to use it. My unofficial survey shows me that many FATP don't completely understand the system, and not one OSWP junior to them cares if they do.

 

[Nindiri]

Can't blame the junior guys for that.

But I get the impression that this whole system is set up to favor senior guys and screw the rest.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Nindiri

A lot of good things here at SWA including pay, hotels, and other stuff, but who the hell came up with this pos open time/trip trading system? Hot, dot, snot, elitt, it's all crap. What took 5 minutes on the simple and elegant FLICA takes hours on this system and is similar to a visit to Hades. Slightly less hellish if you're really senior, but still the worst system I've ever seen. Could you guys not get something better by now?

BINGO!

A classic example of our NC/BOD getting schooled and in turn, schooling the membership. The OT system was supposed to be a "TEST" and then when we all decried how f*cked up it was implemented swapa came back with the xcuse that nothing could be changed because we were too far down the road. That and the fact that they used the strategy to pit pilot against pilot as the main reason it is broken. (FCFS) Couldn't be more wrong.

Scheds shoves all the flying in the later rounds, or splits and farms everything out to other bases so as to avoid paying POT at any cost. It all comes crashing down at the last minute and then if you live less than 20 minutes from base or are a friend of scheds and can get them to buy off on the SWMP then you're making bank.

STC was/is a big broohaha and since swapa can never seem to garner any cohesiveness the former NC head was going to toss the next admin under the bus re: the grievance. Not much choice really as he had to admit they effed it up and the grievance would have no merit. FF to when we were supposed to end the test period and swapa caved.

You'll find that swapa will always stick it to the membership first and foremost before they stand up to the company. And when it comes time to vote on a TA, it will be a hard sell with all the easter eggs and land mines hidden by some fluffy comm piece.

RM should have a field day.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Can't blame the junior guys for that.

But I get the impression that this whole system is set up to favor senior guys and screw the rest.

Couldn't be more wrong on that one.

The system favors the guy that hawks the computer/smartphone and can get to the airport within 2 hours or is a friend of scheds and can get away with the SWMP.

Additionally, ask around about what "your union" was doing for you regarding ELITT/DTC's and a little program called LINETUNER

uke:

 

[Roomwithaview]

Stunning!

I have plenty of friends of AirTran, so the issues do matter to me, even if they will never affect me personally.

Maybe after the failed lawsuit against alpull goes away you can convince the same dudes to put together some slush fund money to hire you on as a full time consultant.

 

[PCL_128]

Maybe after the failed lawsuit against alpull goes away you can convince the same dudes to put together some slush fund money to hire you on as a full time consultant.

They couldn't afford me.

 

[freightdogfred]

Is that you James?

Edited- Nothing achieved by fanning flames, only a bigger fire lol

 

[Phlintstone]

Edited- Nothing achieved by fanning flames, only a bigger fire lol

:laugh: TFF!

Phred

 

[Phlintstone]

Come on FDF, that was FUNNY!!!

Phred

 

[Roomwithaview]

Nindiri

Couldn't be more wrong on that one.

The system favors the guy that hawks the computer/smartphone and can get to the airport within 2 hours or is a friend of scheds and can get away with the SWMP.

Additionally, ask around about what "your union" was doing for you regarding ELITT/DTC's and a little program called LINETUNER

uke:

Case in point. 27 pairings for tomorrow still in open time as of 1700 CDT. Most of them AMs. Nice work Scheds. Nice work swapa. 117 be damned. He who waits the longest and gets the less sleep gets the juiciest trip. Make sure to send human factors that Fatigue Risk Management form.



uke:

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

RWAV, do you participate in your union, or do you just beatch when you disagree with them? No offense, plenty of those joining your ranks. It's an age old problem, some even admit it here, a disregard for the collective and one only agrees with the "union" when the union agrees with them.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Very involved (IMO)

RWAV, do you participate in your union, or do you just beatch when you disagree with them? No offense, plenty of those joining your ranks. It's an age old problem, some even admit it here, a disregard for the collective and one only agrees with the "union" when the union agrees with them.

At least more than 100% of the people I fly with. Have worked for swapa (under Weaks). Volunteered on a regular basis. Vote every single time. Email my reps regularly. Post of the non-anonymous forums when there's a SL or TA or whatever that will effect PAY and QOL.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Carry on.

 

[waveflyer]

At least more than 100% of the people I fly with. Have worked for swapa (under Weaks). Volunteered on a regular basis. Vote every single time. Email my reps regularly. Post of the non-anonymous forums when there's a SL or TA or whatever that will effect PAY and QOL.

In other words, he's not ONLY an educated voting member-
He's "THAT GUY"

 

[Roomwithaview]

Carry on.

You'll have no problem finding apathetic YES voters. Swing a dead cat and you'll hit one.

The company's been killing it for umpteen years. swapa's battle plan has been to give and give and give. Not working out so well. There is no Quid Pro Quo with the two in charge. That's just plain dumbass negotiating if you have capital and give it away with nothing in return, not even a promissory note.

This NC is the same one that advised and procured all those giveaway side letters, hell the last guy they just put back on was the architect of the majority of them. This is the the guy that got his ass kicked by the tranny NC and still tries to claim SL 10 a "victory" for our side even though all the AAI pilots came over while bringing less than half their planes. Do you think it's good strategy to continue doing the same thing over and over and expect different results?

If you're currently here, prepare yourself for a turd buried in what swapa will sell as a home run. The good thing is we'll more than likely have at least 1000 more pilots this time that aren't so easy to bamboozle with road shows and slick magazines.

 

[freightdogfred]

You'll have no problem finding apathetic YES voters. Swing a dead cat and you'll hit one.

The company's been killing it for umpteen years. swapa's battle plan has been to give and give and give. Not working out so well. There is no Quid Pro Quo with the two in charge. That's just plain dumbass negotiating if you have capital and give it away with nothing in return, not even a promissory note.

This NC is the same one that advised and procured all those giveaway side letters, hell the last guy they just put back on was the architect of the majority of them. This is the the guy that got his ass kicked by the tranny NC and still tries to claim SL 10 a "victory" for our side even though all the AAI pilots came over while bringing less than half their planes. Do you think it's good strategy to continue doing the same thing over and over and expect different results?

If you're currently here, prepare yourself for a turd buried in what swapa will sell as a home run. The good thing is we'll more than likely have at least 1000 more pilots this time that aren't so easy to bamboozle with road shows and slick magazines.

Just out of curiousity, what do you propose, that they propose? Let's say, hypothetically, SWA attempts a buyout of Hawaiian. What is your idea of how it should go down, in terms of an ISL? Let's say you're the NC chair.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Just out of curiousity, what do you propose, that they propose? Let's say, hypothetically, SWA attempts a buyout of Hawaiian. What is your idea of how it should go down, in terms of an ISL? Let's say you're the NC chair.

1st thing that needs to be done is to unf*ck the contract where we gave up control of our seniority list in the case where we (SWA) are the acquiring carrier.

None of the current goobers on the NC or BOD are either smart enough or have the balls to work on that so we're f*cked right there.

Secondly, you install language that clearly spells out that swapa will retain control of the MSL and will retain control of ANY integration of that list. Bond McAsskill be damned. Get ready to take that f*cker to the supreme court if need be. Also, see above. No one has the stones for that fight either. But, you asked me what I would do.

swapa is the pilot funded arm of SWA mgt. The whole reason the tranny deal went down the way it did was to avoid what you're watching take place between USAir/AWA. swapa's job was to make this acquisition go as easy as possible, FOR KELLY. Our seniority be damned.

Many here are obviously okay coughing up hard fought for and earned RSW pilot seniority. Not me. I think it's absolute BS. The junior turds that sold this thing are sea gulls, that bide their time on trip pull, comp time committees, doing everything they can to stay on the union dole to avoid having to live with the agreements they keep inking. Once that gig is up, watch them move to mgt. It's a pretty sick cycle.

Prior to the tranny, we had a STRONG case for staple. But, we were going to have to litigate it and no one in swapa has the stomach for that, especially our junior attorney. That doesn't mean you don't continue down that path. Our NC went to your NC and said, "Staple" (wink wink) then immediately starting showing the carved up seniority list. Your NC intelligently sensed severe weakness and kept pressing for more and more seniority and protection. You got that in the second deal. We coughed up a ton more seniority BECAUSE Kelly said the deal was going down no matter what. Hmmmmmmm? Now think about that. He (supposedly) threatened airtran with the deal "NOT" happening and he threatened swapa with the deal happening "no matter what".

This is why you will not see me on the NC. swapa does not want anyone working inside swapa that's going to make the union gig a tough deal. Read the scenario above and you'll see a scenario that involves all the little union minions actually having to earn their keep instead of hosting chili cook offs and painting Ronald McDonald vans.

 

[freightdogfred]

Well, you a hard liner for sure lol, I like the part about "Bond McAsskill be damned." I guess it takes a hard-ass to disregard Federal law lol.
Personally i think you'll get your day in Federal court as the next group will probably want to test that law rather than cave like our NC and pilot group did. Something to think about anyways.

I damn sure don't wanna be standing next to you in a buffet line I might get a fork stuck in my hand