AirTran pilots will own the SW upgrades

[jimcav]

Yeah Really!

 

[Tarheelherk]

It's been a great pleasure to fly with a great group of professionals. Sorry to see it go.

Yes Really!

 

[Ty Webb]

Yes, really.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Wrong!

Which are being replaced 1 for 1 .

You either aren't here yet or aren't paying attention. Kelly just announced (finally owned up to) the fact that we're currently fat 1000 pilots, short 100 planes.

That's what happens when you absorb all pilots while bringing on less than half their planes. Once again-You're welcome.

And, those planes that you think are being replaced one for one are coming from the RSW pilot side. Not the tranny. Your MEC was fighting hard to claim you all were bringing seat (planes) to the party and that's why you guys got such a smoking hot deal. Arbitrator would have had a field day when Kelly announced the 717s weren't going to fit into the SWA plan. Your MEC saved your a$$ by getting you a much better seniority deal in SLI 2.0 AND also verifying you were protected (read no furlough) should the 717s go away. Which they did.

You so called unionists that want to bash your guys for "caving" should be buying them drinks for life. They got you a better deal than you should have and outplayed swapa. Not hard to do as you will learn.

 

[jonjuan]

You either aren't here yet or aren't paying attention. Kelly just announced (finally owned up to) the fact that we're currently fat 1000 pilots, short 100 planes.

That's what happens when you absorb all pilots while bringing on less than half their planes. Once again-You're welcome.

And, those planes that you think are being replaced one for one are coming from the RSW pilot side. Not the tranny. Your MEC was fighting hard to claim you all were bringing seat (planes) to the party and that's why you guys got such a smoking hot deal. Arbitrator would have had a field day when Kelly announced the 717s weren't going to fit into the SWA plan. Your MEC saved your a$$ by getting you a much better seniority deal in SLI 2.0 AND also verifying you were protected (read no furlough) should the 717s go away. Which they did.

You so called unionists that want to bash your guys for "caving" should be buying them drinks for life. They got you a better deal than you should have and outplayed swapa. Not hard to do as you will learn.

Really???

 

[Roomwithaview]

Really???

You betcha! Nothing like bringing a 6th grade education to a Mensa fest.

 

[PCL_128]

That's the type of arrogance and elitest altitude that earns your pilot group the reputation it deserves...

Yes, really.

Especially considering the fact that they were the anchor on airline pilot pay rates for 30 years, and are now falling behind again.

 

[PCL_128]

You betcha! Nothing like bringing a 6th grade education to a Mensa fest.

How appropriate that you use a Sarah Palinism. Seems to fit your level of intellect perfectly.

 

[FIREMAN]

You either aren't here yet or aren't paying attention. Kelly just announced (finally owned up to) the fact that we're currently fat 1000 pilots, short 100 planes.

That's what happens when you absorb all pilots while bringing on less than half their planes. Once again-You're welcome.

And, those planes that you think are being replaced one for one are coming from the RSW pilot side. Not the tranny. Your MEC was fighting hard to claim you all were bringing seat (planes) to the party and that's why you guys got such a smoking hot deal. Arbitrator would have had a field day when Kelly announced the 717s weren't going to fit into the SWA plan. Your MEC saved your a$$ by getting you a much better seniority deal in SLI 2.0 AND also verifying you were protected (read no furlough) should the 717s go away. Which they did.

You so called unionists that want to bash your guys for "caving" should be buying them drinks for life. They got you a better deal than you should have and outplayed swapa. Not hard to do as you will learn.

So why are they hiring?
At the transition luncheon with Gary Kelly he said all 717s are being replaced with 737s as they come off line. He also stated SWA would de within 5 airframes of the total AT/SWA total.

The lower paying lines are the result of increased turn times and block hours to help with the on-time performance.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Fdf

Yup, I won the friggin lotto. 34% seniority loss, loss of my seat, loss of my airplane, loss of my base. There is no pay raise for a line holding captain, it's a pay cut, at least that's what like 4-5 guys who have transitioned have told me as they're "livin the dream". Course, they are no-good Airtran scum lotto winners who are prob lying anyways. When one pilot group is absorbed by another do you really feel that they should be "shown the street?" That's pretty harsh, but I guess that's just your nature.

You sure did. Your airline was for sale and it was bought. Get over it. You lost AirTran seniority and in return for that pain and suffering won RSW pilot seniority. Something guys at your place were leaving in droves to take a staple, start at the bottom, go thru probation and what not. You got a smoking hot deal. The AirTran folks I've flown with are good dudes. Not internet trolls and we don't waste each other's time bemoaning our individual woes RE the SLI. Instead it's move on, stay safe, drink beers, have a good overnight.

The street was a reality not because of SWA but because of your winner take all mgt team that was going to be more than glad to let you guys strike. That's why your mgt boy told Kelly when he asked what your career expectations were, "they had none" That's harsh, especially coming from someone that should have your back but coming from a background where former Eastern scabs were welcomed with open arms it's hard to break that cycle.

I will be a good little foot soldier. I work hard, I like what I do, and If I get a pay raise, well woohoo, I'm all for it. I must admit the ability to change bases every month is appealing that way i can get into your base and bid to fly with you. Think of all the fun we can have!

Bring it on. See above. It's over. We all better start rowing in the same direction. First way to do that is live in the real world and learn from the mistakes of the past. Where do you want to put the next group of ACQUIRED pilots?

You can say what you want about Airtran, it was a good job, paid pretty good, and I liked it. I'm sorry to see it go. But SW is a good job too so I got that going for me. I hope whoever pissed in your wheaties doesn't do it again but hey, have a great day!

So were the other four 121 operators I worked at. Like I said, live in the real world, learn from the mistakes of the past and have a game plan moving forward. SWAPA won't have your back in the next one. They'll go for a negotiated deal just like the last time and if the people being bought don't like the first one, Kelly will give away even more of your seniority to sweeten the deal. Unless, you ink a contract that prevents him from doing so. This is the biggest heartburn I had with the whole deal. The MSWP list is owned by the union and our dip******************** NC handed it to Kelly AFTER Chase claimed "we have no more left to give" and allowed him to cut-n-paste it anyway he wanted to sweeten the deal enough for your MEC. Looks like it worked to the detriment of RSW pilots, like me, as I lost 40% more RSW pilot seniority from SL9 to SL 10

 

[Roomwithaview]

Good question

So why are they hiring?
At the transition luncheon with Gary Kelly he said all 717s are being replaced with 737s as they come off line. He also stated SWA would de within 5 airframes of the total AT/SWA total.

The lower paying lines are the result of increased turn times and block hours to help with the on-time performance.

When your the CEO you can do whatever you want and say whatever you want and it becomes gospel. Line productivity is way down. Start strong isn't working so increased turn times is a waste. Numbers don't lie and we're currently running around 2 to 2.5 pilots per plane fat. That would make the numbers even higher than 1000 but I'm just parroting what he stated.

I think we're all scratching our had as to why since Kelly holds on to nickels like they're manhole covers. Kelly has to abide by the upgrade agreement with swapa so he has to have at least a one for one with FOs which means you either transition someone over (which he can't if he as to still staff the tranny) or he brings on a new hire. Cheap and easy.

2015 will be when all is revealed. It's either furlough, grow, or continue to have $hitty schedules, with reduced line totals and lots of green pay bars on folks lines.

 

[redflyer65]

That's the type of arrogance and elitest altitude that earns your pilot group the reputation it deserves...

Yes, really.

Elitist, hardly.

I just think it's entertaining that you are defending an FO making 70k to fly a 737. And that was almost at the top of the pay scale.

I could understand if Freight had said he enjoyed working there and maybe driving to work, but to say the pay was good was laughable with the CA maxing out at 152/hr and the FO maxing out at 79/hr. That and a bad work environment (for some) is why plenty of people were looking to bail to other carriers. For some it might have worked pretty well if you got on early and upgraded quickly. For others, not so much.

At least everyone will be done with ALPA soon enough!

 

[FurloughedAgain]

2015 will be when all is revealed. It's either furlough, grow, or continue to have schedules, with reduced line totals and lots of green pay bars on folks lines.

this seems like a very real concern going into 2015 without a plan to increase fleet size - not as much for the former AT folks, but for the newhires.

When I was at USAir in the late 90s they hired 1100 and, as it turned out, we were ultimately hired to staff a training float while they transitioned the fleet to Airbus. Once the fleet transition ended (and accelerated by 9/11 and the massive RJ growth and parking of the DC9, MD80, F100, and 737-200) we were all furloughed.

I too am concerned about staffing numbers.

 

[madjack]

Not on Kelly's watch....but it should be a comfort to the FATs that they have 400 below them....you say it's elitist, but just as the FATs are proud of their accomplishments as a pilot group ( I left out mgmt) the SWA pilots are proud of our record....it will be a great pilot group going forward...mgmt should recognize this and in this age of 17% ROIC make meaningful improvements in the CBA...we don't want the adversarial relationship to develop between the pilots and mgmt...those coming from AAI know how that feels...

 

[redflyer65]

Especially considering the fact that they were the anchor on airline pilot pay rates for 30 years, and are now falling behind again.

So you need to reach back to 1990 to make an argument? Probably not your strongest case.

 

[humveedriver]

So you need to reach back to 1990 to make an argument? Probably not your strongest case.

No it's not. But many in here (not the pilots that I actually fly with because they are senior and KNOW better) act as if the financial prosperity and contractual gains SWA pilots enjoy is something that existed for a long time. Truth is SWA became a top 3 airline to work for post 9/11. The reasons in order were 1) weakened legacy carriers 2) a fuel hedge bet that paid off 3) a top contract made possible by 1 and 2. And the resulting pilot group is sadly similar to that funny animated clip that was posted on FI. Now "the best" want to work for SWA and that means the ego goes along with it. Both AirTran and JetBlue grew faster as airlines and had better pay rates for the same period of growth. All I read on the SWAPA forum is how the pilots expect the union to force the company into giving them a better contract. And if they don't do it soon. Then it's the union leaderships fault.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

So you need to reach back to 1990 to make an argument? Probably not your strongest case.

When you act like WN was the cream of the crop since inception 42 years ago, it is necessary to remind you where you came from. It's not real flattering, just like every other carrier. It's especially fun to compare your airline at 17 years compared to where we were when we were merged with yours. Hearing all the negatives about our airline that would have applied, and then some, to yours at the same age. So, yes, reaching back to 1990 is apropos.

 

[redflyer65]

Good arguments Humvee and Luv.

Now, go back and ask the older guys about their Stock Options. Yea, the rates they had sucked back then, but Herb gave them some lucrative Stock Options for being part of the team.

Some of those strike prices were under $3/share and in the meantime the stock kept splitting at $20/share multiple times. What does that mean? Those guys that weren't getting huge paychecks, were getting massive stock option gains. Nobody understands that because it wasn't advertised. It wasn't put on a website for all to see like a pay rate is.

The 90's for those that had options was incredibly lucrative.

Humvee, I know your based in Dallas so ask some of those four digit guys you fly with. They'll talk about cashing out with hundreds of thousands in options. Hell, many four digit FA's became millionaires......EASILY. So a comparison with AirTran/JetBlue during their 'growth' period isn't going to turn out very well, and that was because of Herb.

So...

Would you have rather been hired SW or AAI/JB during the growth period?

Not flattering to be proud of the history of SW? Sorry we disagree.

 

[humveedriver]

Good arguments Humvee and Luv.

Now, go back and ask the older guys about their Stock Options. Yea, the rates they had sucked back then, but Herb gave them some lucrative Stock Options for being part of the team.

Some of those strike prices were under $3/share and in the meantime the stock kept splitting at $20/share multiple times. What does that mean? Those guys that weren't getting huge paychecks, were getting massive stock option gains. Nobody understands that because it wasn't advertised. It wasn't put on a website for all to see like a pay rate is.

The 90's for those that had options was incredibly lucrative.

Humvee, I know your based in Dallas so ask some of those four digit guys you fly with. They'll talk about cashing out with hundreds of thousands in options. Hell, many four digit FA's became millionaires......EASILY. So a comparison with AirTran/JetBlue during their 'growth' period isn't going to turn out very well, and that was because of Herb.

So...

Would you have rather been hired SW or AAI/JB during the growth period?

Not flattering to be proud of the history of SW? Sorry we disagree.

Lol. Those millionaire pilots are retired except for one or two who just like to fly purple planes, and the ex-wives have all the money for the others that are left.

But it's a valid point flyer. All I can say is those guys are a good bunch to fly with and it's more because of their perspective on things. For the record I think you guys should have been offered stock as part of the integration. Given the current price. That would have been a nice gesture.

 

[HowardBorden]

When you act like WN was the cream of the crop since inception 42 years ago, it is necessary to remind you where you came from. It's not real flattering, just like every other carrier. It's especially fun to compare your airline at 17 years compared to where we were when we were merged with yours. Hearing all the negatives about our airline that would have applied, and then some, to yours at the same age. So, yes, reaching back to 1990 is apropos.

All airlines grow and progress or wither and die. No one enters the game at the top of the heap, it takes years and years to build upon the initial contract and make it something to be proud of.

The difference between many of us here arriving at SWA post 9/11, and those at AirTran for a similar time frame, is the choices we made about what type of airline was right for us. The AT folks chose a small up and coming airline with quicker upgrade times but coupled with a less than superior contract and pay rates. Others chose an airline that had an industry leading contract and pay rates coupled with an airline of substantial size and financial stability with little chance of becoming an acquisition target.

I don't blame you for your choices, don't blame me for mine. Since I have been at SWA I have enjoyed an industry leading compensation package with great rigs and work rules. It took me longer to get a job here because it was a more desirable position with lots of qualified candidates competing for a limited number of jobs. I turned down a job at an airline similar to AT because I had my sights set on something better.

I won't profess to know what was best for you and your career path, only what was right for me. I chose an airline that I was confidant would remain financially viable, had little chance of being acquired due to its size and firm financial footing and where I thought I had the least chance of being furloughed.

It is of little consequence to me what type of job was available at SWA 40 years ago because I didn't work there then. I do know many folks who were around during that time frame from gate agent to pilots to rampers, and all seem quite satisfied with their choice to come to work at SWA back in the day when SWA wasn't "the cream of the crop", as you put it. As a matter of fact, most of them will retire to a lifestyle that far outweighs many of their peers at competing airlines because they chose an airline that never needed to hit the reset button nullifying all of their hard work and efforts putting something away for retirement.