AirTran pilots will own the SW upgrades

[-9Capt]

didn't get a 30% pay increase or a new profit sharing plan.

In exchange for your profit sharing we lost our B-fund and 401k match. I'd have to do the math on that but I'm pretty sure is a losing deal for us.

 

[Ualexpress]

Which numbers are BS? I never said all of your captains will upgrade in 2015. I specifically said they will have the chance to upgrade as there are only about 200 captains on your side that are junior to our most junior captain.

There are 430 AT captains that are junior to SWA's most junior captain as of 1-1-15 not 200. The other 470 (for a total of 900 captains on the AT side) that are senior enough to hold captain on 1-1-15 will require vacancies to be able to upgrade, which I am sure will take 2015 and 2016 to get through. The other 430 are slotted in at 1 to 3 ratio (1AT to 3SWA). According to Jaime's my seniority website the most junior AT captain will upgrade in 2023 with a no fleet growth scenario. Of course if the fleet grows that date will trend downwards.

 

[freightdogfred]

It is when a large number of senior pilots to you, senior enough to be captains, are transitioned over as FOs.

His global seniority did not change. He was a loooong way away from upgrade prior, and he's a looong way from it now. Actually, now he's 3% closer. Note the 1 less o in long.

 

[redflyer65]

His global seniority did not change. He was a loooong way away from upgrade prior, and he's a looong way from it now. Actually, now he's 3% closer. Note the 1 less o in long.

No change in the upgrade date. None. So no need to add or remove "o's".

 

[redflyer65]

In exchange for your profit sharing we lost our B-fund and 401k match. I'd have to do the math on that but I'm pretty sure is a losing deal for us.

For 2012 - Match 9.3% plus Profit Sharing 6.2% = 15.5%.

For 2013 - Match 9.3% plus Profit Sharing >10% (estimated) will equal a combination above 20%.

Probably not a losing deal.

 

[bluesideup1]

There are 430 AT captains that are junior to SWA's most junior captain as of 1-1-15 not 200. The other 470 (for a total of 900 captains on the AT side) that are senior enough to hold captain on 1-1-15 will require vacancies to be able to upgrade, which I am sure will take 2015 and 2016 to get through. The other 430 are slotted in at 1 to 3 ratio (1AT to 3SWA). According to Jaime's my seniority website the most junior AT captain will upgrade in 2023 with a no fleet growth scenario. Of course if the fleet grows that date will trend downwards.

And just about every one of them will make A LOT more than they would have if they had stayed at Airtran.

By the time the bids close at the end of the year there will be closer to 200 AT captains that could not hold captain. But lets use your number instead and you can tell me how:

800 of your pilots getting a 30 percent raise immediately upon transition is a bad thing?

Then tell me how those 470 captains upgrading in the next two years and getting a 35% raise is a bad thing?

Using your numbers those 430 AT pilots that will not be able to hold captain in Jan 2015 are all they have been talking about. Are they taking a pay cut? Hardly. Are they making A LOT more than they did just 3 years ago before the purchase? YES.

This just surprises me because the SW pilots got nothing except people in front of them who weren't there before while THE VAST MAJORITY OF AT PILOTS GOT OR WILL GET HUGE RAISES IN THE NEXT 2 YEARS. Am I wrong?

 

[zman]

And just about every one of them will make A LOT more than they would have if they had stayed at Airtran.

By the time the bids close at the end of the year there will be closer to 200 AT captains that could not hold captain. But lets use your number instead and you can tell me how:

800 of your pilots getting a 30 percent raise immediately upon transition is a bad thing?

Then tell me how those 470 captains upgrading in the next two years and getting a 35% raise is a bad thing?

Using your numbers those 430 AT pilots that will not be able to hold captain in Jan 2015 are all they have been talking about. Are they taking a pay cut? Hardly. Are they making A LOT more than they did just 3 years ago before the purchase? YES.

This just surprises me because the SW pilots got nothing except people in front of them who weren't there before while THE VAST MAJORITY OF AT PILOTS GOT OR WILL GET HUGE RAISES IN THE NEXT 2 YEARS. Am I wrong?

Who cares!! This new "SWAPA" pilot group will be divided and fragmented for a while. Just wait till all the lawsuits start flying at the end of the year. People have been holding off and waiting to sue (with the advice of their attorneys) for years cause they needed to wait till they saw how it would play out. I personally know someone that has waited years for this.

 

[freightdogfred]

This just surprises me because the SW pilots got nothing except people in front of them who weren't there before while THE VAST MAJORITY OF AT PILOTS GOT OR WILL GET HUGE RAISES IN THE NEXT 2 YEARS. Am I wrong?

Not true. A vast number of them have recently unpgraded, or are in upgrade.
(I know, Airtran brought this to the table, not the pilots)

A new Atlanta base, which filled rather quickly with some senior peeps evidently is was quite popular. (I know, Airtran brought this to the table not the pilots)

It appears GK was more interested in eliminating one of his direct competitors that was lowering his yield in certain markets than he was in obtaining this stellar pilot group and it's big Atlanta hub, gates, planes, routes. The promised synergies, increased yields, added routes (not to mention a subsidiary whose performance numbers are a matter of record) have all allowed GK to exceed his 15% ROIC target, which theoretically will be reflected on your next profit sharing check so although it's not the big raise you're so pissed the Airtran F/O's got, it is something. When you were a kid did you yell when your brother or sister got a bigger slice of pie, or were you happy for them? Line holding Captains will take a pay cut in the transition. I've talked to a few of them and they confirm it, and many may not see the left seat again. I'm happy our transitioned F/O's got a raise. They deserve it, every one of them were damn good pilots, a 121 Captain prior to coming here. You couldn't get hired here unless you were, post-911. Although I'll prob take a pay cut, I'M HAPPY FOR THE GUYS WHO GOT A RAISE. I hope next Thanksgiving when you're eating turkey with your family you get the biggest slice of pie.

 

[twepilot]

Just for peoples planning...I won't be re-upgrading until I can be based in ATL. I'm sure I'll miss my left seat and being able to set the tone for my flights with my crew but, I refuse to re-upgrade just to commute to the likes of PHX, LAS, OAK, MDW, or BWI. Ain't gonna happen.

RV

 

[Ualexpress]

And just about every one of them will make A LOT more than they would have if they had stayed at Airtran.

By the time the bids close at the end of the year there will be closer to 200 AT captains that could not hold captain. But lets use your number instead and you can tell me how:

800 of your pilots getting a 30 percent raise immediately upon transition is a bad thing?

Then tell me how those 470 captains upgrading in the next two years and getting a 35% raise is a bad thing?

Using your numbers those 430 AT pilots that will not be able to hold captain in Jan 2015 are all they have been talking about. Are they taking a pay cut? Hardly. Are they making A LOT more than they did just 3 years ago before the purchase? YES.

This just surprises me because the SW pilots got nothing except people in front of them who weren't there before while THE VAST MAJORITY OF AT PILOTS GOT OR WILL GET HUGE RAISES IN THE NEXT 2 YEARS. Am I wrong?

Blue,

The point of my post was not to argue who got the better deal so to speak. Some of the points you make are true, but I just wanted to throw out the actual captain numbers on this side of the partition that's all. I'll let the 5-10 of y'all arguing over who got the better deal continue the argument, which is an exercise in futility in my opinion. It's like arguing politics or religion. You are not gonna change each others mind so what's the point in wasting time. See you on the other side.