AirTran Pilots Fired!!!!!!!

[blueridge71]

This whole debacle ought to make it very clear that Obama is the best choice for president. At least compared to Mccain. At the very least he will appoint labor friendly judges and NMB members.

You are absolutely right if you vote solely on whether a President will release you to strike or not and not on:

Negotiating with terrorists regimes
Winning the war
Keeping taxes low
Keeping the government from taking over healthcare
Drilling for oil
Second amendment rights
Pro-life issues
Preventing massive carbon taxes and cap-and-trade
Preventing Iran from going nuclear
Containing North Korea (since Clinton didn't keep them from going nuclear)
By "labor friendly," do you mean judical activists who substitute their own opinions for written law?
About a thousand other issues

But, oh wait, didn't Northwest get a release to strike from an NMB under Bush? And didn't Clinton order AA pilots to stop their strike in 1997?

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Gosh, we've done so well under Republican regimes lately. All the stuff they've done has really helped the country. Especially when the did away with privacy rights, and that pesky habeus corpus thing in the Constitution.

I especially like the war in Iraq and giving North Korea everything they wanted because they developed nuclear weapons.

Oh and lets not forget Iran and OPEC.

You know, investing over a $1,000,000,000,000 in Iraq and the middle east instead of say researching alternative energy sources and mortgaging our country to China... Wow! Bush rocks. I want 4 more years.

I'll take change. I live in Arizona. McCain hates workers. He is kinda of the opinion that if you work and you don't make enough money, you're lazy.

 

[MCDU]

Gosh, we've done so well under Republican regimes lately. All the stuff they've done has really helped the country. Especially when the did away with privacy rights, and that pesky habeus corpus thing in the Constitution.

I especially like the war in Iraq and giving North Korea everything they wanted because they developed nuclear weapons.

Oh and lets not forget Iran and OPEC.

You know, investing over a $1,000,000,000,000 in Iraq and the middle east instead of say researching alternative energy sources and mortgaging our country to China... Wow! Bush rocks. I want 4 more years.

I'll take change. I live in Arizona. McCain hates workers. He is kinda of the opinion that if you work and you don't make enough money, you're lazy.

Great post. You hit it spot on. Great summary on how stupid some are in this country. Do not even get me started with our Cuba policy. Hypocrites.


Marty

 

[nwaredtail]

It's not if Obama will win, it's by how much and if he can put together a team to start cleaning up the mess of a "C" student that rode Daddy's coattails his whole life.

 

[400A]

It's not if Obama will win, it's by how much and if he can put together a team to start cleaning up the mess of a "C" student that rode Daddy's coattails his whole life.

He better assemble a good team, because if he wins we will have a 500 hour RJ F/O in the left seat of a 747-400.

 

[Muppets]

He better assemble a good team, because if he wins we will have a 500 hour RJ F/O in the left seat of a 747-400.

What? Please explain. If this is true I will vote Obama for sure! I do get a pay raise, right?

 

[Citrus531]

If Obama is a 500hr FO in a 744, then "Dumb Dubya" was a 90 day ATP fast tracker who didn't finish his private and was told he could be Captain.

The training dept(American public) thought he was a great guy who you could have a beer with.....thousands of crashes later he's still in the left seat....can't wait for Jan 20th!

 

[400A]

If Obama is a 500hr FO in a 744, then "Dumb Dubya" was a 90 day ATP fast tracker who didn't finish his private and was told he could be Captain.

The training dept(American public) thought he was a great guy who you could have a beer with.....thousands of crashes later he's still in the left seat....can't wait for Jan 20th!

Just remember, as far as the tax cuts for the wealthy that he always refers to..... cover most of us on this board. Brace yourself.

I really don't like any candidate running, but he scares me to death. If you think he gives a crap about the aviation industry you are kidding yourself.

 

[N1VIBS]

I hate to be the one to get this back on track, but here goes. I'm still a little confused about what happened at AirTran. Have they actually fired anyone or furloughed anyone yet or is it still a "we're going to do this if you pilots don't do this" type of a deal? Know a few people at the Tranny and hope you guys get it all worked out.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Thought their in house rep is investigating that same question right now and will come out later this week with a recommendation as to whether or not accept management their proposal...

 

[blueridge71]

Gosh, we've done so well under Republican regimes lately. All the stuff they've done has really helped the country. Especially when the did away with privacy rights, and that pesky habeus corpus thing in the Constitution.

I especially like the war in Iraq and giving North Korea everything they wanted because they developed nuclear weapons.

Oh and lets not forget Iran and OPEC.

You know, investing over a $1,000,000,000,000 in Iraq and the middle east instead of say researching alternative energy sources and mortgaging our country to China... Wow! Bush rocks. I want 4 more years.

I'll take change. I live in Arizona. McCain hates workers. He is kinda of the opinion that if you work and you don't make enough money, you're lazy.

If you are expecting me to defend the subpar performance of most republicans, you'll be disappointed. The choice is between bad and worse. The social-democrats tell you right up front that they are going to screw up foreign policy, raise taxes, keep oil prices high, and screw up healthcare to boot.

In two years of controlling Congress, the dems not only failed to keep oil prices from skyrocketing, the also managed to jack up food prices by 75% as well!

I will say that your comments about habeas corpus are way off. The Supreme Court basically gave US citizenship rights to foreign terrorists.

And one thing that I think Bush has done right is Iraq. Granted, there were some mis-steps along the way, but the war will be vindicated by historians (who find it harder to ignore facts the way the media does). Why?

500 TONS of yellowcake uranium were found and recently shipped out of Iraq. Why did Saddam need all that uranium if he wasn't planning to build a nuke after he bribed UN officials to remove the sanctions?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/07/iraq.uranium/index.html

You may have noticed that leftists have pretty much stopped claiming that there were no terrorists in Iraq before the Americans came and that secular Saddam would not support Islamic radicals. You know why? Because a new report detailing the contents of captured Iraqi documents which prove, without a doubt, that Saddam was supporting numerous terror groups. I encourage you to at least read the introduction:
http://www.jfcom.mil/newslink/storyarchive/2008/pa032008.html

In fact, about the only thing that we really got wrong was the location of Saddam's stockpiles of chemical/biological weapons. The question we should be asking here is "where are they now?" Syria, I'm looking in your direction.

And, oh by the way, the surge? Working in spite of what Obama said and is saying.

 

[Lear70]

Dutch, N1, I agree, this thread has been hijacked by political bullsh*t most of us don't care about right now...

Elections are several months away, let's deal with our pilots' problems now, or take the political talk to the political section...

Now, back to the discussion at hand.

I hate to be the one to get this back on track, but here goes. I'm still a little confused about what happened at AirTran. Have they actually fired anyone or furloughed anyone yet or is it still a "we're going to do this if you pilots don't do this" type of a deal? Know a few people at the Tranny and hope you guys get it all worked out.

Here's the update for this week:

The union sees that there are 3 choice:

1. Let the company get away with whatever they want to do and give them the relief they want.

2. Fight the company tooth and nail and, in the end, MAYBE get a judge to do something about it, years down the road...

3. Give the company the concessions they want in Section 17 (the section that deals directly with discharging/retaining retiree instructors), in order to get language in other sections that, as previously mentioned, requires the company to offer Leaves of Absence, early retirements WITH benefits, etc, to LOWER the number of furloughs that would have to occur and make them FURLOUGH rather than terminate them.

The NPA is focusing on option #3 simply because there's not a real option in 1 or 2 that helps the membership, except for drawing a line in the sand.

Oddly enough, on the private boards, the bottom 177 pilots who are slated to be terminated are the MOST VOCAL about choosing option 2. They WANT the NPA to fight it, tooth and nail, to the bitter end, believing they'll get their jobs back and believing that it's more important to show the company that we are UNITED in REFUSING absolutely ANY CONCESSIONS.

I have to hand it to those men and women, to do the right thing, in the face of losing your job. Simply inspiring, d*mned glad to see people who still have the moral fortitude to do what is right in this career.

The next move belongs between the NPA and the company who, it seems, were meeting yesterday and today in ATL at the union offices.

The Member Ratification petition is moving along, but needs help as SOON as possible, if you hope to be able to vote on any LOA on this subject...

PM me for the link to the signup page.

Good luck to us all... God knows I wish I was on property right now...

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Lear -

Correct me if I am wrong here, but isn't management defending their pay cut proposal by saying A) we took a 15% pay cut ourselves already (without of course saying that they got a 30% raise in the first place a few months ago) and B) that they need to show "good will" to Boeing to prevent Boeing from taking back their 717's ??

Good luck to you guys. I would hate to see AirTran go, but more so I would hate to see you guys taking one up the #ss by management.

What I also fail to see is why it always is people seem to think that a 11% pay cut actually makes a difference... That equals 1 week of fuel for all airplanes if that!

Pay is low as it is. Me thinks on average $3.50 for the captain and $1.50 for the F/O per paying pax...

FD

 

[BSkin]

You liberals crack me up. Please tell me Obama's experience!

Lear, since you, even though not here right now, seem to have the info, do you know if the cuts are a done deal, or IF oil keeps gradually falling, can that change. Dependent on whether or not AAI has already decided on opting out/selling aircraft I'm sure.

 

[Lear70]

First of all, scr#w you liberal bastards highjacking this thread. F-Obama bin laden! Please tell me his experience?

Not going there... I flew McCain, know what he's like, but this is NOT a political thread!

Lear, since you, even though not here right now, seem to have the info, do you know if the cuts are a done deal, or IF oil keeps gradually falling, can that change. Dependent on whether or not AAI has already decided on opting out/selling aircraft I'm sure.

The cuts are NOT a done deal. ANY pay cut absolutely REQUIRES member ratification. It's the work rules and associated give-backs that don't and that's what's driving MEMRAT.

The mechanics just voted their cuts DOWN by a 60/40 split. They were also told that if they voted no, the rest of the cuts wouldn't matter.

The F/A's have been told the same thing about their pay cut package; it hasn't gone to vote yet but the mechanics should have triggered a retraction of the vote if that claim from management was true... we'll see.

AAI is DEFINITELY selling some of the 737 slots. They are gone.

More aircraft? The 717's are for sale, but no one is buying at a rate that makes financial sense to sell. If oil falls, it will make sense to take advantage of any openings in MKE, as rude as that sounds. Don't shoot the messenger...

Honestly, I think management at AirTran is dynamic enough to play a 3-way poker game, all at the same time:

Option 1. Get pay cuts from your employees, whoever is dumb enough to say "Yes".

Option 2. Take advantage of a carrier that folds, scoop up their routes if you can, buy the planes you need, there's ALWAYS financing if the plan sounds good.

Option 3. Bankrupty: if all else fails, exercise golden parachutes, force concessions on everyone, then profit when the stock bounces back up into $10 or so a share for $ Millions.

You'd be a fool to think that management doesn't have at least 3 or 4 backup plans.