Airtran Pilots, Don't buy that new house yet..

[TV9Driver]

vixin,

i dont claim to have any answers. I certainly don't want to take away from any SWA pilot. I do think that if a pilot was expecting to upgrade, get off reserve, hold a base, or any other seniority milestone within a timeframe, then that shouldn't change because of an integration. Relative seniority does address that the best - i'm not saying it is perfect, but it does offer the least lifestyle change for all involved. So, if you are a top 10% f/o at SWA, then after all the dust settles, you would still be a top 10% f/o at SWA. Again, it's not perfect and the lists can be tweaked to accommodate bulges, age of the respective airlines, etc..

I also think that a previous poster had a great idea - SWAPA should go after bonuses for their pilots to make the integration go smoothly (ala DAL/NWA) - you guys deserve that. You guys didn't ask for this, and now you are being told you need to share the room with your new step-brother, so I think you all should expect the company to compensate you for this - just remember beating up your stepbrotther isn't compensation - he didn't ask to share the room either

Good luck guys. I truly am looking forward to working with you all. In fact, I think that the biggest "windfall" that the AAi pilots are getting is the chance to become part of the SWA culture.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

What was the hire date of SWA pilot with 2100 seniority number?

March 1999.

We have 5880 on the seniority list now by the way. Someone else posted about where senior AT would fit in DoH. First hire in '93 - Jan 07, 1993 is sen. # 687.

 

[General Lee]

March 1999.

We have 5880 on the seniority list now by the way. Someone else posted about where senior AT would fit in DoH. First hire in '93 - Jan 07, 1993 is sen. # 687.

Hey FRIENDS. Squabbling won't help with anything, and you cannot negotiate for your group. Each group will have people putting their defence up for an arbitrator or group of arbitrators. They will decide. It doesn't matter about money (NWA pilots were making 30% less per hour than DAL pilots, and relative prevailed). Overall, you both are the same type airlines (not one being an INTL carrier, and the other only domestic---you are both mostly domestic), both LCCs, and they will decide it for you. JUST ENJOY THE DAY!

Regardless, you guys are ALL FANTASTIC, and if you have a spare minute today, do something nice for someone, like buying some guitar strings for a bum who needs some for his banged up guitar that he calls "his best friend." See ya!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ASADFW7]

General I like the new attitude, and I agree that no one will hammer out the deal here. Say hello to your new friend!

 

[General Lee]

I am a senior AAI f/o within 6 months of upgrade here. I have a few questions...

why do SWA pilots call AAI pilots going to SWA pay rates a windfall? Are you not enjoying that same windfall? I am guessing that a lot of SWA pilots were hired from the regionals where they were working at substandard pay. Isn't this also a windfall for you - making a great salary at a good company? Why would you begrudge AAi pilots also working for these pay rates? Are SWA pilots paying AAI pilots salaries? Are they "losing" something if AAi pilots are on the same pay rates? Then why do some act like this is a gain for AAI pilots and a loss for SWA pilots?

Secondly, like I said earlier, I am a senior f/o (been here 6 years) and was looking at upgrade within the next six months. If I upgrade I will be a Captain making approx $135-140k a year at AirTran. If I am not allowed to upgrade (due to a less favorable integration) I would still be a F/O, making approx $130-140k a year and have my upgrade put off 5-10-15 ? years at SWA. My question is, how is that a "windfall"? Captain, 135k or F/O, 135k, and a 5-15yr upgrade....

I am hopeful that this will resolve itself in a professional and amicable manner. After going through this once before with TWA, I know better than to think that the best in human nature will rise to the surface. I don't want to take away anything from my new SWA brothers - in fact I want to work hard to make sure that everything gets better for ALL of us. But please don't try and take away from me and tell me it's what I deserve.

Good luck everyone. I look forward to working with all of you.

Lots of harsh words will be stated, and there will be hard feelings among the group. It happens in every merger. The only guys who will be happy will be the #1 seniority pilot, and every lawyer working for each company. Don't fret over what is said on this board, and you will probably upgrade anyway because the SLI is probably 10-12 months away at least.

Regardless, you guys will eventually feel as a group FANTASTIC, and that is wonderful. If you have time in your day today, do something nice for someone, like telling an overweight lady that her hair is pretty. See ya!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[kc81900]

I am a senior AAI f/o within 6 months of upgrade here. I have a few questions...

Yes you are a senior AAI f/o you have never been guaranteed by anyone of a upgrade date. When you were hired at AAI they did not enter upgrade date xx/xx/2011. You are never guaranteed an upgrade and you are never guaranteed to maintain an upgrade. Also, you are never guaranteed to maintain any seniority level. AAI pilots senior and junior need to realize your upgrade is in no way guaranteed merger or no merger. And IMO your relative seniority within a much smaller pilot group in no way gives you the right to achieve super seniority gaining is some cases 5+ years seniority.

 

[kc81900]

vixin,

i dont claim to have any answers. I certainly don't want to take away from any SWA pilot. I do think that if a pilot was expecting to upgrade, get off reserve, hold a base, or any other seniority milestone within a timeframe, then that shouldn't change because of an integration. Relative seniority does address that the best - i'm not saying it is perfect, but it does offer the least lifestyle change for all involved. So, if you are a top 10% f/o at SWA, then after all the dust settles, you would still be a top 10% f/o at SWA. Again, it's not perfect and the lists can be tweaked to accommodate bulges, age of the respective airlines, etc..

I also think that a previous poster had a great idea - SWAPA should go after bonuses for their pilots to make the integration go smoothly (ala DAL/NWA) - you guys deserve that. You guys didn't ask for this, and now you are being told you need to share the room with your new step-brother, so I think you all should expect the company to compensate you for this - just remember beating up your stepbrotther isn't compensation - he didn't ask to share the room either

Good luck guys. I truly am looking forward to working with you all. In fact, I think that the biggest "windfall" that the AAi pilots are getting is the chance to become part of the SWA culture.

Again, an emotional arguement for relative seniority with no facts. Relative seniority unfairly rewards the smaller pilot group giving them unearned seniority. Your top 10% pilots would achieve unearned 12 years of seniority (AAI wasn't even in existence and they were earning seniority) your middle 50% guys would earn 5 years of unearned seniority. Please address that fairly with facts and not emotion.

 

[NuGuy]

And IMO your relative seniority within a much smaller pilot group in no way gives you the right to achieve super seniority gaining is some cases 5+ years seniority.

...Again, an emotional arguement for relative seniority with no facts. Relative seniority unfairly rewards the smaller pilot group giving them unearned seniority. Your top 10% pilots would achieve unearned 12 years of seniority (AAI wasn't even in existence and they were earning seniority) your middle 50% guys would earn 5 years of unearned seniority. Please address that fairly with facts and not emotion.

But we've been told over and over that DOH doesn't matter.

If you are saying that a SWA guy at %15 of the list hired in the 80s deserves to be ahead of a AirTran guy at %15 of the list hired in the 90's, well, then, I guess people are saying DOH DOES matter.

Y'all really need to make up your minds about this.

Nu

 

[DougCorp-9]

Again, an emotional arguement for relative seniority with no facts. Relative seniority unfairly rewards the smaller pilot group giving them unearned seniority. Your top 10% pilots would achieve unearned 12 years of seniority (AAI wasn't even in existence and they were earning seniority) your middle 50% guys would earn 5 years of unearned seniority. Please address that fairly with facts and not emotion.

Fact: AAI #1 guy was hired 9/25/93
Fact: # 1 AAI guy has his choice of line, base, vacation.......
Fact: If given DOH he would be #849 on the SWA list
Fact: #849 on the SWA list DOES NOT have his choice of line, base, vacation


Not saying AAI #1 guy should be number on your list but time served is only important for longevity reasons like vacation accrual, pay scales ect. Everyone should keep their longevity for those purposes. Seniority is about choice. AAI is bringing choices (ie. pilot positions) so they should not suffer a loss.

 

[ATLboeing]

Guys,
One thing we need to keep in mind: With the "merger train" picking up steam in this industry, there's no way AirTran was going to continue as a stand-alone carrier. We were going to end up as SOMEONE'S dance partner. How would we feel if it were USAir, American, or even Republic for that matter? Also, I'm fairly convinced that Gary Kelly was GOING TO buy someone. So for both sides, seniority lists were going to be messed with in some fashion.
We should all agree that this combined company is going to be a force to be reckoned with in the industry and should provide us all with about the best job security one could ask for in this type of career. The best thing we can do now is contact our status reps and communicate our concerns so that they may be addressed at the table, and hope for the best.
Not one single pilot at either of our companies had a hand in making this decision to come together, so to come on this board, or even worse in person, sling mud and name call is very unprofessional and degrading of ourselves. Let's let this unfold in the proper place, at the table. Contact your status reps, let them know how you feel.
I hope the best for both groups, and especially the senior FO's and junior captains at SW. Unfortunately some will get the short end of the stick and it would be nice if they could be pay protected or receive some sort of a bonus, but who knows. "Career expectations" is a very fuzzy subject in this industry.
So when we see each other in passing, just remember, those pilots in uniform didn't make this decision. Let's treat each other like the professionals we all are.
Carry on.