Airtran Pilots, Don't buy that new house yet..

[BILL LUMBERG]

I can't wait to watch this one.....

Gettin' some Orville's poppin as we speak!!!!

It kills me the arrogance of a few could wreck the outlook for all.

I thought the SWA guys wore a flag tie becuase they were patriotic, I had it all wrong, they need to look down to remember which country they can only fly in. Before the LUV comes down on me, to be fair, you guys DO fly your outsourced maintenance ferries to Costa Rica or where ever your MX fed decides his backdoor payout goes furthest.

The Airtran cert brings international, something you ladies don't have.....so quit making them out to be soooooo inferior.

Careful Trannies..They may make you guys buy your type like they did just to bring it to parity......:laugh:

 

[GuppyWN]

Now Bill..... don't be a ******************** stirrer. I was trying to be level headed with my post.

Gup

 

[dalad]

Convince me how relative is fair?

Gup

It's what the arbitrator will decide, so suck it up *************************.

 

[Spud]

T-45, I really think you need to get a grip.

The SLI will be done by the respective unions, or the arbiter, within months, not years.

Glad to be here, Boss.

 

[funnyman12]

I am at the 20% level on the Airtran seniority list. I agree a 100% relative seniority is probably not going to happen. Date of hire won't happen either. My opinion is that I would drop to the bottom 15% of the combined list or something like that. So I would imagine a ratio would play out. With the projected hiring we will have roughly 1850 pilots mid '11 and you guys will have 6000 pilots. We are 31% the size of SWA. So a 7/2 ratio would give the SWA guys an advantage but provide us with a fair integration. Im probably wrong....we shall see

 

[Spud]

I'm going to take a deep breath and tell you that I am NOT trying to piss you off when I say -

You aint getting straight up relative seniority if "fair" is the goal.

Our senior pilot was hired in 1977. Yours 1993. Our Captains make over $50/hr MORE than yours, our FO's? Over $50/hr more.

You guys don't bring growth. You ARE our growth. If you guys think we are going to just start hiring and adding city pairs like mad after this you are delusional. We will be 7500 pilots and almost 700 airplanes strong. There just won't be a hell of a lot that we can do beyond that with any significant frequency that will really put a dent in things.

Convince me how relative is fair?

Gup

Fair, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or arbiter.

Play nice.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Now Bill..... don't be a ******************** stirrer. I was trying to be level headed with my post.

Gup

Not you gup.......

But you are in a slight right bank....not so level!!

 

[DougCorp-9]

Should us Airtran folks be able to keep our respective seats? We are bringing our aircraft to the party you know. It's not like we are showing up with a 6 pack of Schlitz. If I have to downgrade I will lose money, not have a windfall. The fact that your payrates are higher doesn't cost the any pilot anything. Seniority and seat position are the only cost to us line pilots.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Says to me if we(SWA pilots) don't get at least a descent
bump in seniority this would be a windfall (sp?) for the AT pilots. Am I wrong? Better pay benefits QOL job security days off bases. What is our windfall?
Respectfully
Fr8

A "descent" bump is a reduction.

 

[vikesfanIV]

Should us Airtran folks be able to keep our respective seats? We are bringing our aircraft to the party you know. It's not like we are showing up with a 6 pack of Schlitz. If I have to downgrade I will lose money, not have a windfall. The fact that your payrates are higher doesn't cost the any pilot anything. Seniority and seat position are the only cost to us line pilots.

Despite what people like to claim on FI, when we were negotiating with Frontier all their pilots would have been pay protected regardless of the seat. I can't imagine it wouldn't be the same here. If an AirTran Captain was to get bumped down the list to an FO position I'm about 100% sure they wouldn't have to worry about a pay cut. So, that leaves all AirTran pilots keeping their same pay or in most cases receiving huge raises. Southwest pilots (especially on the FO side) don't have much to gain other than a seniority bump. If it's a fair SLI, then both sides will probably be a little pi$sed off. Anything else means one side got the better of the deal. My guess is the final solution is somewhere between pure relative seniority and a staple.

 

[chjack]

SWA guys are really something else. Whenever it looks like somebody else may get to enter the club, without going through the process, they get real nasty. I'd be bitter too if I paid for my type, and somebody else got on without shelling out the cash!

 

[ATRCAPT]

SWA F/O's are going to take it in the shorts on this one. How junior or senior you are determines whether or not lube will be used. Why Gary decided to sh!t on his people like this I'll never know, but this is just one more disappointment in the colossal let down this career has become. So welcome aboard Tranny guys. I'll buy the first round and we'll try to figure out why we were all so stupid as to choose this as a career.

 

[chjack]

SWA F/O's are going to take it in the shorts on this one. How junior or senior you are determines whether or not lube will be used. Why Gary decided to sh!t on his people like this I'll never know, but this is just one more disappointment in the colossal let down this career has become. So welcome aboard Tranny guys. I'll buy the first round and we'll try to figure out why we were all so stupid as to choose this as a career.

On the contrary, I think the Airtran guys are feeling pretty smart right now about their decision to become a tranny!

 

[saabcaptain]

T45 and Co..
Can someone from SWA explain to me why relative seniority is such a bad deal for you?
i mean.. do you really think that airtran is going to come in and get better then relative seniority and you are going to get worse? That means worst case you will be right where you are today, only with future growth.
I understand the upgrade times might be delayed.. but which side will now face a longer delay?
This is a lot different then buying (F9) a company in bankruptcy and shrinking and trying to preserve jobs. -I for one prefer the DAL/NWA model over the LCC/AW one.

wait, so AirTran pilots get every single win in the book, unreal pay raises, better benefits, better QOL with more domicile choices, and on and on while SWA pilots should accept relative seniority where a 6 year AirTran CA jumps ahead of a 10 year FO from SWA combined with the reality that significant growth will stagnate for years after a 25% overnight growth? yeah, we will see what an arbiter thinks about that.

 

[PreContact]

This is very interesting to watch some Southwest F/Os becoming a bit uncomfortable...