Airtran Pilots, Don't buy that new house yet..

[Ty Webb]

DO you pay bills with a darn seat? Who gives a crap about being a CA? If your pay went up, QOL was close to the same and and didnt have to commute would that make you happy if you lost a stupid stripe.

Maybe you didn't read my post, but for many AirTran pilots, FO would be a pay cut, for some it would be a very substantial pay cut.

AirTran just had it's most profitable year ever, and has 50 aircraft on order, for growth. We don't need this merger, far from it. We're growing and hiring RIGHT NOW . . . .

Now, if you want to pay me 10th yr CA pay to fly FO, that's different, but don't tell me I should downgrade and take a pay cut to be a SWA pilot. If you don't understand that, then we don't have anything to talk about, do we?

 

[General Lee]

General Lee and all my future Airtran friends, I could not AGREE MORE.

Congrats! You just made a Southwest's guys argument. Don't you feel dirty now?

BTW, Have a super-duper wonderful day!

RESPECTFULLY, please have your union tell it to the arbitrators, AT's ALPA people will. And, there won't be anything anyone can do about the result. You are both LCCs, have the same type of planes, and both companies are healthy. Don't expect to be an outright winner in this, because the real winners will be the ones who get huge raises, and get good spots on the SLI. In the meantime, your combined company will grow, and you will eventually upgrade, albeit a few years after most people initially thought. That's life. But, remember, YOU GUYS ARE ALL GREAT PEOPLE. ENJOY THAT LIFE, WILL YA? I DO.

Regardlesss, you guys hopefully will have a FANTASTIC DAY tomorrow, and if you can, if you can remember to, just do something nice for someone pr something else, like tearing off a small corner of a saltine cracker and giving it to a sparrow. See ya!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[vixin]

There would not be a pay cut. Maybe you misread my post. I truly believe worst case your pay would be protected...ie stay the same. Most likely increase. As well as better benefits and work rules. Not to mention lower cost insurance, but with Obamas healthcare screw job who knows on that one.

Funny how you glanced over the concept the SWA has been planning this for longer then a week or two.

 

[General Lee]

Maybe you didn't read my post, but for many AirTran pilots, FO would be a pay cut, for some it would be a very substantial pay cut.

AirTran just had it's most profitable year ever, and has 50 aircraft on order, for growth. We don't need this merger, far from it. We're growing and hiring RIGHT NOW . . . .

Now, if you want to pay me 10th yr CA pay to fly FO, that's different, but don't tell me I should downgrade and take a pay cut to be a SWA pilot. If you don't understand that, then we don't have anything to talk about, do we?

Ty, buddy, who said you would go to FO? Arbitrators will decide the SLI. Sit back and relax my pal. Don't fall for this stuff. Believe it or not, you have people and lawyers at your disposal (via ALPA) that have been through this before. You will make your case, and they will try to make theirs, and then arbitrators will decide. Remember, Garry Kelly didn't go to SWAPA first to ask them about all of this, he went public. The Bond/McCaskil bill won't allow a staple. Wall ST wants clean mergers. SWA and SWAPA will have to take it to an arbitrator, or it will turn into USAir all over again. That is how it will pan out, and ALPA will have to put up a good fight for you. They will. Chillax.


And to all my SWA and AT buddies, I say, HAVE A FANTASTIC DAY! If you have a chance, try to be nice to somebody tomorrow. Buy someone a small cup of clam chowder. See ya!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Whataburger]

Reserve?

 

[Full of LUV]

There would not be a pay cut. Maybe you misread my post. I truly believe worst case your pay would be protected...ie stay the same. Most likely increase. As well as better benefits and work rules. Not to mention lower cost insurance, but with Obamas healthcare screw job who knows on that one.

Funny how you glanced over the concept the SWA has been planning this for longer then a week or two.

So the company would pay AT guys at captain's pay, but put them as FO's on the SLI? Maybe for a couple dozen, but that would get real expensive in a hurry if all of the AT guys were put at DOH.....

 

[General Lee]

Reserve?

Hey buddy, do you mean me? Not in 10 years. Nope. Have great schedules and fly to fun places. As far as anyone else? I don't really know. You know, I could easily say "ELP?" for you, but that would be mean, and I have changed my ways and want to HELP people like you now. I want to be BEST FRIENDS with you guys, and talk about FANTASTIC things.

Regardless, have a FANTASTIC night, and try not to worry about AT guys moving West. It will be ALRIGHT. You will be FINE, I am pretty sure about that. ENJOY everything, and if you can, try to be nice to someone tomorrow, like cleaning cans out of a vacant lot next to your local park. See ya!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

So the company would pay AT guys at captain's pay, but put them as FO's on the SLI? Maybe for a couple dozen, but that would get real expensive in a hurry if all of the AT guys were put at DOH.....

Since you aren't in the same union and don't have rules pertaining to merger integration for both of you, the arbitrators will likely look at recent precedence. That would mean relative seniority. USAir East got the top 500 spots at USAIr because they did something that AWA didn't do--INTL widebody. If you guys don't have something like that, I would think it would be relative but maybe the first few hundred may be more weighed towards SWA since they have more longevity.

Regardless, you both have FANTASTIC days upcoming here, and try to do something nice for somebody or something tomorrow, like feeding a chimp at the local zoo a banana when the guards aren't watching. See ya!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[vixin]

Not really. AT CA pay is less then SWA FO pay most years. If its not AT pay is margianally larger. I think an AT 10 yr CA and above may make a few thousand more then SWA 10yr FO's. One gets pay protected at the current rate. Once they reach a SWA rate that is more then they receive that SWA rate.

 

[kc81900]

Doesn't matter, in either case SWA needs this transaction. Oherwise why pursue it? Call the SLI the cost of doing business. Sorry, you don't get to buy someone elses career.

Actually, your wrong both swa and aai want this transaction. This isn't a hostile takeover. AAI wants this transaction (needs (your words)) just as much as SWA. AAI does not want to be left out of the post merger airline industry. SWA was going to buy someone and AAI wanted to be that someone. I can guarantee you AAI was very much pursuing this deal. AAI would be trying to buy SWA if it had the money.

Oh yeah, you don't have a birth right to someone elses contract. Call the SLI the cost of a superior contract. AAI pilots will realize $1.5 million more in compensation over a 25 year career thanks to southwest pilots. Who is (buying) who's career!!!!!!!!!!

As for AAI pilots argument to growth, aircraft orders, upgrades that is all a mythical creature doesn't exist until its on property and you are in the seat and even then it can all go the other way in a very short period of time. None of that is ever guaranteed we all know that. You can be growing hand over fist one month and all that can be cancelled in the blink of an eye. That argument simply doesn't hold water. You have no right to that left seat just ask usair pilots even pre merger. AAI is profitable and growing (yes) for how long no one knows not even a AAI pilot.

 

[crj410]

AirTran just had it's most profitable year ever, and has 50 aircraft on order, for growth. We don't need this merger, far from it. We're growing and hiring RIGHT NOW .

what postion do you hold on the company board of directors to make such a bold statment like that. i think your in disagreement with your CEO. we're you left out of that meeting.

 

[Full of LUV]

Not really. AT CA pay is less then SWA FO pay most years. If its not AT pay is margianally larger. I think an AT 10 yr CA and above may make a few thousand more then SWA 10yr FO's. One gets pay protected at the current rate. Once they reach a SWA rate that is more then they receive that SWA rate.

Vixin,
I see that the SWAPA wants fences as well, why wouldn't the company then just move as much flying to the fenced ATL base since they are paying a lower wage than the rest? Also, who would be the captains at the fenced ATL base if the AT pilots could no longer hold captain?

I think you will get a JCBA first which will give the AT guys the huge raises and hopefully a least a small raise with some stock to the SWA guys. Then they will begin on the SLI which will go to arbitration, but be binding. This is the way it went down in the DAL/NWA merger and yes the NWA guys had just been handed big raises, but for the SLI, that windfall argument didn't go far as the assumption was that the pay would have marginalized eventually anyway.
Best of luck, SWA is truly a major airline now with major issues. Overall, this will probably be better for the whole industry, just hard to stomach if your just short of upgrade at SWA or AT for that matter.
LUV

 

[FlyinGuy]

I was hoping that things on these boards did not go down hill this fast, but it is FI!!!

We (SWA & AT guys) need to step back and not get emotional. There is a lot at stake for all involved but we both have negotiating committees that will do the fighting in the trenches for us. When they emerge, we will all be the new SWA. Take some time and look at what we have to potential to do on the domestic and near international markets. In the next 10 years things could be great for all of us.

So I want to say to all the Air Tran pilots...Welcome aboard. My Capt will buy the drinks!!!

 

[carl p]

Part of the reason the pay numbers are so skewed is that your comparing to the AT 2001 contract. When the new contract ends up around Alaska rates the gap will be closer and the argument that pay is such a huge windfall AAI pilots should suffer in the SLI won't hold water.

These are GK's thoughts on what AT brings to the dance:

Gary Shares His Thoughts on AirTran Acquisition
By: Gary Kelly on Sep 27, 2010 at 8:30am
It’s bright and early here in Dallas, well before dawn. By now, I’m sure you’ve heard our historic news about a contract to acquire AirTran. It is enormously exciting. But, as I was driving in this morning, lost in thought, I found myself thinking about the People of Southwest Airlines. I’m not normally on the road this early, on deserted streets. But many of you are A.M.-ers. I just appreciate you, and what you do for Southwest and our Customers every day, so much.
As I said in my Mid-Year Update, it’s been a brutal recession, on top of a grueling decade. Growth opportunities are very hard to come by in this economy. While we had no plans to grow the fleet, we have persevered, and are doing well. We’re healthy financially, and a lot better than a year ago.
Let me tell you, we’ve found a way. The opportunities for growth that flow from an AirTran acquisition are enormous: more destinations; more Customers; more flights; and more profits. All of that adds up to growth, more aircraft, and more jobs.
Today, in fact, buoyed by our increased 2011 profit outlook that AirTran brings, Mike Van de Ven, our Chief Operating Officer, is announcing new hire classes for Pilots and Flight Attendants. That, in and of itself, is very exciting because that’s the first time we’ve hired since 2008.
Now, back to the deal with AirTran. This deal has been a long time in the making. It will be months before we actually close and own them. In the meantime, we each continue as independent Companies, and competitors for that matter.

Here’s what they bring to us:
1. They are a high-quality, low-cost operation
2. They are a solid, low-fare brand
3. They have a meaningful route network that allows us to strategically expand ours
4. They have a compatible, young, all-Boeing fleet with 53 future deliveries
5. They are a profitable business at an affordable price
The acquisition of AirTran sets the stage for us to resume our own fleet growth; for two reasons: it boosts our profits to satisfactory levels and it provides numerous route opportunities that need to be added, particularly out of Atlanta. And growth means more jobs.
This is the dawn of a new and exciting decade for Southwest Airlines, and I am very optimistic about our future. We’ve always said some things about Southwest Airlines will change, and some never will. Rest assured, Southwest remains committed to our original mission of providing low fares and great Customer Service, and we are totally committed to providing job security for our Employees.
We have a lot of work ahead of us, and it will take all of us working together. Southwest Warriors, I know I can count on you.
This is a good deal. When I say that, the first test has to be, is it good for our People. Oh, yeah!
I encourage you to check SWALife for further information.

Thanks for tuning in.
Gary C. Kelly

 

[kc81900]

I have read a lot about how relative seniority is the only way to go its the only fair and equitable thing to do. But no one supports that stance with any facts just talk about career expectations and growth and aircraft orders. Both airlines have career expectations, aircraft on order, and growth plans. Talk that I am in the left seat or that I am senior in this seat and I have the right to keep that seat or that relative seniority.

Let's look at one pilot the guys half way up the list at both carriers.

Airtran pilot was hired Sept 2004 SWA pilot hired Mar. 2001. So if the airtran pilot was given relative seniority he would gain 3.5 years seniortiy.

airtran pilot is an F.O. SWA pilot is a Captain. The airtran pilot remaining an F.O. would receive a 69% pay raise. (info taken from available seniorty list)

Airtran pilot would gain 3.5 years seniority all SWA pilots hired between Sept 2004 (airtrans DOH) and March 2001 (airtrans new relative seniority) would be leap frogged by this airtran pilot with his/her new super seniority.

Airtran pilot would get first upgrade over SWA pilots hired between the above dates realizing a 168% pay raise. All at the cost of SWA pilots

Where is the fair where is the equitable. Seems awful one sided to me.

would love to see someone try to argue these facts against relative seniority.

THE ONLY RELATIVE YOUR GOING TO GET IS YOUR SISTER.