Airtran Pilots, Don't buy that new house yet..

[chjack]

SWA guys are really something else. Whenever it looks like somebody else may get to enter the club, without going through the process, they get real nasty. I'd be bitter too if I paid for my type, and somebody else got on without shelling out the cash!

 

[ATRCAPT]

SWA F/O's are going to take it in the shorts on this one. How junior or senior you are determines whether or not lube will be used. Why Gary decided to sh!t on his people like this I'll never know, but this is just one more disappointment in the colossal let down this career has become. So welcome aboard Tranny guys. I'll buy the first round and we'll try to figure out why we were all so stupid as to choose this as a career.

 

[chjack]

SWA F/O's are going to take it in the shorts on this one. How junior or senior you are determines whether or not lube will be used. Why Gary decided to sh!t on his people like this I'll never know, but this is just one more disappointment in the colossal let down this career has become. So welcome aboard Tranny guys. I'll buy the first round and we'll try to figure out why we were all so stupid as to choose this as a career.

On the contrary, I think the Airtran guys are feeling pretty smart right now about their decision to become a tranny!

 

[saabcaptain]

T45 and Co..
Can someone from SWA explain to me why relative seniority is such a bad deal for you?
i mean.. do you really think that airtran is going to come in and get better then relative seniority and you are going to get worse? That means worst case you will be right where you are today, only with future growth.
I understand the upgrade times might be delayed.. but which side will now face a longer delay?
This is a lot different then buying (F9) a company in bankruptcy and shrinking and trying to preserve jobs. -I for one prefer the DAL/NWA model over the LCC/AW one.

wait, so AirTran pilots get every single win in the book, unreal pay raises, better benefits, better QOL with more domicile choices, and on and on while SWA pilots should accept relative seniority where a 6 year AirTran CA jumps ahead of a 10 year FO from SWA combined with the reality that significant growth will stagnate for years after a 25% overnight growth? yeah, we will see what an arbiter thinks about that.

 

[PreContact]

This is very interesting to watch some Southwest F/Os becoming a bit uncomfortable...

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

This will definetly end up in court fast, especially if the majority of the SWA pilot group shares the veiws of T45, (I don't want someone making what I'm making infant attitude). When the ruling is handed down, I'm going to guess it'll look like this. Top 500 SWA pilots stay where they are, the a 3/1 ratio integration. Just a guess.

 

[hateairlines]

It's an acquisition staple is fair, the other option is unemployment.

 

[N1kawotg]

Unemployment isn't the alternative for AT, they are making money and growing. Gary took this oppurtunity while their stock is low to buy them vs grow internally"too much risk" AT guys what if you guys bought Virgin America? 5 year old company vs your 17 year old co. Would relative seniority be an easy pill to swallow?all their capt now capt with you, why? cause they were with someone else. Yeah that's fair. NOT

 

[funnyman12]

When Airtran was days from finalizing a takeover at Midwest, we were prepered to give them a 4/1 ratio. We had 1600 pilots and they had 400. Midwest was doing horribly financially and had zero growth. Regardless of what everyone on this boards opinions is, we were willing to give the Midwest pilots a fair integration despite their airline's weakness. I believe Airtran pilots should get a 7/2 ratio, which gives the SWA pilots a 5% advantage. Im at the 20% make on our list and I would hope to be approx 15% on a combined list. The 500 top SWA guys on top and the rest at a 3/1 ratio would work also.

 

[General Lee]

General,

The NWA/DAL merger was never compared in my statement. I do know that there is more than one way to skin a cat. If one side of the negotiating table is unwilling to negotiate in good faith, then the other side has to do a little "self help".

I think we do have quite a big carrot to dangle in from of their face. Airtran pilots could be flying Southwest painted planes for a long time while they collect Airtran wages.

I know everyone likes to think the Southwest guys are going to roll over and take what we get. I disagree.

I do not dislike Airtran guys. This is business. We can shake hands and grab a cold one when this is over. My guess, July 2017. Any other guesses?

T45flyer,

RESPECTFULLY, I disagree. This really isn't up to you. During the F9 talks, Gary talked to you in public, almost allowing you guys to decide the fate of that merger. Well, this time Gary had to do it in secret, and it will result in a much bigger airline for you. But, things aren't always rosy. There will be some downfalls, and not everyone will be happy. There are plenty of FNWA pilots that are not happy with the SLI, and that is unfortunate, but that is arbitration. You don't want a B-Scale for the Airtran guys, and an A Scale for you guys, that would divide you immediately. Nope, you will want to get a common payrate, and find a good payrate on the 717s, and then you will open bases for bids, and the more senior guys will bid wherever they want. FDAL pilots didn't get a large raise at all, and the FNWA guys got a 30% payraise, and if they moved up from the DC9 in MEM to a 767 in ATL, they got an additional 20% for the larger equipment. Some guys did great, and some did not. I have a feeling the Airtran FOs will gain A LOT in pay, and may be able to bid out West if their seniority can hold it. If it makes you feel any better, you can bid out here to ATL and we can all go out someday and drink a tall frosty one! Why? Because you guys are now my BEST FRIENDS, and I can't wait to ask you guys what it is like flying into MAF.

Regardless, you all are FANTASTIC, and I hope you all do something great for someone today, like buy a USAToday for a elderly man sitting on a bench. See ya!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

This is very interesting to watch some Southwest F/Os becoming a bit uncomfortable...

Amen Brother....

 

[General Lee]

When Airtran was days from finalizing a takeover at Midwest, we were prepered to give them a 4/1 ratio. We had 1600 pilots and they had 400. Midwest was doing horribly financially and had zero growth. Regardless of what everyone on this boards opinions is, we were willing to give the Midwest pilots a fair integration despite their airline's weakness. I believe Airtran pilots should get a 7/2 ratio, which gives the SWA pilots a 5% advantage. Im at the 20% make on our list and I would hope to be approx 15% on a combined list. The 500 top SWA guys on top and the rest at a 3/1 ratio would work also.

Don't agree to something that could be worse than what you may get. Arbitrators will see that you are 2 companies that do the same things (both LCCs, both with mainly domestic flying (AT has some INTL) with planes no larger than 737s. Even though SWA is stronger, AT was not near BK. AT's Capt rates were good, just like SWA Capt rates, with the only main difference being the FO rates. Had AT's Capt rates been half of what SWA's was, then that is different, but the AT rates were pretty good. I have a feeling the ALPA people at AT are going to fight to get 1 for 1, and that is what they should do. Will the arbitrators agree? Probably not, but you have to FIGHT to get what you want, you just don't give in and give it all away, and I don't think the AT guys at ALPA will do that. That wouldn't be PRUDENT.

Regardless, I think ALL OF YOU ARE FANTASTICALLY SWELL, and I hope you have a great merger. Be nice to someone everyday. Maybe tomorrow you can push a kid gently on a bike down a quiet street. See ya!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ATRCA]

It really shocks me that Airtran pilots believe that they will get up to a $70,000 a year pay raise and keep their relative seniority and not give up anything to the Southwest pilot group. Really?

Here is a thought. The Southwest pilot group sits on negotiations for the next, lets say, 7-8 years. We already are making nice money, plus a possible variable raise and a negotiated fixed raise coming in the next few years. We are doing fine, and Airtran pilots can give up over 500+K of lost income. That extra cash would be nice, but I'm sure the QOL is really what you want. You can be the North pilots, we will take South(west).

Now, maybe, you could be reasonable, and take the huge financial windfall and give up some seniority to get it. I doubt it. Just a thought.

I am sure glad that 4 out of 5 of our Negotiating Committee are First Officers.

My bet is a Arbitrator. But I wouldn't be fooled by your union into thinking this windfall will be easy, or fun. Might want to hold off on the high fives for a little while.

Have a wonderful day.

Don't you just love these guys! Yeah, that's some culture you guys have cultivated over there. SWA decided to initiate this transaction. The pilots of Airtran have no obligation to finance it. They are under no duress and the fact that your contract is superior entitles you to nothing.

 

[T45Flyer]

I have a feeling the ALPA people at AT are going to fight to get 1 for 1, and that is what they should do. Will the arbitrators agree? Probably not, but you have to FIGHT to get what you want, you just don't give in and give it all away, and I don't think the AT guys at ALPA will do that. That wouldn't be PRUDENT.

General Lee and all my future Airtran friends, I could not AGREE MORE.

Congrats! You just made a Southwest's guys argument. Don't you feel dirty now?

BTW, Have a super-duper wonderful day!

 

[mbd]

SWA acquiring AT is no different than if SWA bought a regional airline. The 717 has fewer seats and the pilots are making way less money.

 

[funnyman12]

But Airtran pilots are awesome......you have to take that into account.

 

[MRW]

General...Your right!!! Fight for what you want and hope the staple is thick!!!

 

[N tha jungle]

SWA acquiring AT is no different than if SWA bought a regional airline. The 717 has fewer seats and the pilots are making way less money.

Yeah, a regional airline with over 50 737's on order!

 

[funnyman12]

And the 737's were purchased at a price cheaper than any other airline, including SWA. Also the 717's were bought at dirt cheap prices since we were the launch customer.

 

[eaglesview]

SWA, the new "angry F/O club."