AirTran MEC: Whine on!

[Just thinking]

Last year they upgraded almost 200 Captains. So far this year at 134. Word is 500 for next year. Not bad "growth" to skew the Captain seats for years to come. Without massive orders of aircraft it will be hard for the senior FAT FO's that will be uber senior) to see any upgrades when everything flattens out over the coming years.

 

[Tripower455]

Last year they upgraded almost 200 Captains. So far this year at 134. Word is 500 for next year. Not bad "growth" to skew the Captain seats for years to come. Without massive orders of aircraft it will be hard for the senior FAT FO's that will be uber senior) to see any upgrades when everything flattens out over the coming years.

Many of those upgrades are coming at a price. Unless they live or are willing to move west, they'll be commuting cross country to Capt reserve for decades, especially when the FAT guys can start moving left. We have a lot of guys bypassing upgrade for this reason. I know 2 guys personally that upgraded, commuted for a while, and bid back to the right seat (not even a lance in one of the cases) for QOL reasons.

Being an FO at SW is not a bad gig, particularly a senior one at top scale. A senior FO, living in domicile can work less days (if you count commuting days as the jr capt) and make nearly as much as he would commuting to reserve. I think 128 tfp is the magic break even number for an FO to make the same as he would as a reserve Capt making 90ish. It's far easier to make 128 TFP (without even messing with POT stuff) as an in domicile, senior guy than it is to commute to 90 tfp on reserve on the other side of the country.

I know if my choice was being a senior FO in my domicile, or a jr. Capt on the other side of the country, I'd take the FO gig in a heartbeat.

The only downside is if you go out on medical, you get a lot more if you're a Capt than an FO.

As for the "flattish" comment, we're already there. If we're lucky. The 717s leaving negatively affects us too, as now we have to absorb all the AT pilots with roughly 1/3 the seats.

 

[SWA Bubba]

From what I remember from the conversation I had with an ALPA rep...It has to do with SWAPA pushing SWA (and getting an MOU) to have a vacancy bid for all remaining (uncaptured?) CA slots in the event that all AT aircraft/personnel are not across the partition by 12/31/2014. This prevents an AT CA from keeping their seat if SWA cannot effect an expeditious training plan. ALPA is none to happy that these MOUs were negotiated and signed without them at the table.

I understand SWAPA's reason behind the MOUs and I know a number of CAs are hoping to keep their seat by deferring their transition until the very end.

Phred

I've never heard of this. Post it, please.

Bubba

 

[freightdogfred]

I've never heard of this. Post it, please.

Bubba

We didn't either. It was evidently covert, unpublished and only recently discovered. Contact Steve Chase for further details, I'm sure he can fill you in.

This WAS just recently published, however. It apparently negates yet another part of the process agreement, which by now, most of us are used to.

1.Training for 717 positions will no longer be offered.


2.All Pilots, regardless of Transition Bid Award, will now be able to bid for SWA 737 FO positions when Pilots are being accepted from their Crew class.



3.Pilots originally awarded SWA 737 FO in the Transition Bid
who are voluntarily bidding to go to training
will receive priority over Pilots originally awarded TBA 717 CA or FO.



4.Involuntary assignments will be made in reverse seniority order based on the Crew class being drawn from regardless of what they were awarded on the Transition Bid Award.

What it means is that 737 Captains who specified 717 as the second choice
will no longer be able to transition to the 717 to remain as captain, and quite possibly will transition to SW 737 FO while a less senior 717 Captain remains flying left seat at FL. In a nutshell, it's a complete reversal from their previous position that all training bids will be followed as bid, as I understand it.

 

[Phlintstone]

Bubba, I'll try to find it. Like I wrote it was word of mouth...from an ALPA rep.

Phred

 

[Phlintstone]

Found it...

Read the MOU dated 11-29-2011. It is in regards to 737CA seats and a vacancy bid in Sept 2014 for those seats. The 717CA seats are not mentioned.

Phred

 

[RLAblows]

What this also means for FO's at AirTran who were awarded swa/fo, they are being passed over by way junior FO's who weren't awarded swa per the transition bid. It's like being passed over for upgrade.

 

[canyonblue]

From what I remember from the conversation I had with an ALPA rep...It has to do with SWAPA pushing SWA (and getting an MOU) to have a vacancy bid for all remaining (uncaptured?) CA slots in the event that all AT aircraft/personnel are not across the partition by 12/31/2014. This prevents an AT CA from keeping their seat if SWA cannot effect an expeditious training plan. ALPA is none to happy that these MOUs were negotiated and signed without them at the table.

I understand SWAPA's reason behind the MOUs and I know a number of CAs are hoping to keep their seat by deferring their transition until the very end.

Phred

Well that would make sense wouldn't it? Your group voted to give away all of your Captain seats. Not 75%, not 85% not even 99%. If one SWA pilot were denied one of those Captain seats, then that would be in violation of the agreement. That one pilots vote could have been decided on the way the agreement was presented. On 1-1-15 there should not be one AirTran Captain flying as Captain, this was part of the agreement correct?

 

[fletch717]

Well that would make sense wouldn't it? Your group voted to give away all of your Captain seats. Not 75%, not 85% not even 99%. If one SWA pilot were denied one of those Captain seats, then that would be in violation of the agreement. That one pilots vote could have been decided on the way the agreement was presented. On 1-1-15 there should not be one AirTran Captain flying as Captain, this was part of the agreement correct?

No, our last vote gave us 510 captain seats on the 717 with atl and tpa as bases. That was what WE voted for.

 

[Tripower455]

No, our last vote gave us 510 captain seats on the 717 with atl and tpa as bases. That was what WE voted for.

We did too.

 

[madjack]

Now we have 1700 trannys inbound bringing 54 aircraft...

 

[Phlintstone]

Well that would make sense wouldn't it? Your group voted to give away all of your Captain seats. Not 75%, not 85% not even 99%. If one SWA pilot were denied one of those Captain seats, then that would be in violation of the agreement. That one pilots vote could have been decided on the way the agreement was presented. On 1-1-15 there should not be one AirTran Captain flying as Captain, this was part of the agreement correct?

Seriously??? Why don't you go read the original agreement. Don't try to rewrite history.

Phred

 

[Phlintstone]

Now we have 1700 trannys inbound bringing 54 aircraft...

Yuuuuuup!

Phred

 

[fam62c]

Now we have 1700 trannys inbound bringing 54 aircraft...

True, but AT is also bringing enough gates at ATL and other airports plus the international flying to utilize many more airplanes than that. SW will be flying many more than 54 additional airplanes (creating many CA upgrades) that they would not have had anytime soon without the AT combination.

The 717's were going to replaced at some point no matter what, it just happened a lot faster than anybody thought. The original plan was for them to stay while the 300's were retired first before any more of them cracked. I guess in the end it's a wash, 88 717's going away means 88 300's that would have been replaced with new deliveries staying on the property longer.

 

[737tanker]

What I don't understand is the DRC concerning the MOU changing the SWA ATL base from 717s to 737s. Is ALPA saying that they can tell a company what equipment they must operate? I wish SWAPA could file a DRC about the 717s leaving. The SLI would have looked different if the employees had known that 88 aircraft weren't coming over. Arbitration wouldn't had looked so bad under that condition!