AirTran MEC Chair message.

[Dan Roman]

When you said "you tried to tell them" did you include that Gary has no problem being deceitful? If he said it would go to arbitration if a deal wasn't reached in the beginning and than changed his tune, he lied. It's really that simple.
You can't blame the MEC for trying to play the game the way the rules were spelled out to them.

 

[Flyer1015]

I didn't vote for it, so I'll "cry" about it all I want, thanks. And you seem to be missing the point here: we were lied to and mislead by management during the voting process.

Lied to and mislead by management? Say it ain't so. You fell for it? How do you know when management is lying? When their lips are moving...

 

[vixin]

Exactly...now give it a rest and stop this madness.

 

[Quimby]

35 pages of this in 11 days?

Impressive.

 

[redflyer65]

When you said "you tried to tell them" did you include that Gary has no problem being deceitful? If he said it would go to arbitration if a deal wasn't reached in the beginning and than changed his tune, he lied. It's really that simple.
You can't blame the MEC for trying to play the game the way the rules were spelled out to them.

Dan,

The biggest problems here is that people are forgetting....


1- The AIRTRAN Negotiating Committee came up with this deal to begin with!

2- Why was there such a disconnect with the Airtran MEC to vote it down? (a horrible decision, they decided to run out the clock instead of sticking to the timeline)


This is what the AAI NC came up with. They thought it had merit.

 

[Dan Roman]

Well, I'll give you this, it's never as simple as any of us think. Mergers are complicated, emotional nightmares. I'm just hoping I never go through one!

 

[27 driver]

Dan,

The biggest problems here is that people are forgetting....


1- The AIRTRAN Negotiating Committee came up with this deal to begin with!

2- Why was there such a disconnect with the Airtran MEC to vote it down? (a horrible decision, they decided to run out the clock instead of sticking to the timeline)


This is what the AAI NC came up with. They thought it had merit.

Do you believe the ******************** you are spewing? There wasn't any negotiations. There was take it or find another job. Your livelihood was not on the line. Ours was.

 

[redflyer65]

27,

I believe there were at least 3 months of negotiation between the two NC's. Am I wrong?

I'm not debating what happened later, but there was plenty of meetings before Gary ever got involved.

 

[FlyinGuy]

The Process Agreement took way to long to hash out. Remember, "our lawyers are looking at it". It should/could have been done quickly which would have left much more time to negotiate the serious issues of the SLI. By the time it got down to the nitty gritty, time was running out and GK saw where this was headed. He was never going to let the fate of the pilots go to an arbitrator. You felt rushed and backed into a corner because there was no time left to continue lengthy negotiations after SL 9 went down. Could things have gone smoother? Probably, but my guess is that we would have ended up pretty close to where we are now. SWA pilots would never have voted in SL 9, so we would have been back at the table anyway. What would SL 10 look like if SWA voted it down? dunno. Bottom line is people on both sides are po'ed. That is the nature of negotiations. Hopefully we can all find some peace with where ever we end up and this company can continue to make money for all our sakes.

 

[SWA/FO]

To be honest, we told them on here time and time again that you don't want to rattle the cage at the Southwest GO. Pretty much every AAI pilot on here, including PCL and Lear told us we were full of sh*t.

Yep, told them the b*tch slap was coming. They didn't believe it.

 

[Dan Roman]

Yep, told them the b*tch slap was coming. They didn't believe it.

...and if they had that warrior spirit down they would have known to say "Yes SIR I would like another!"

Sorry couldn't resist.....

 

[dicko]

I would have never voted against Gary and pushed so hard

OMFG ........ Snorkel anyone ?

It's obvious that you handed him your Sac when you walked in the front door. Hardly surprising that SWAPA is merely a management rubber stamp.

Run on over to the APA thread. They need your expertise again.

 

[SWA/FO]

...and if they had that warrior spirit down they would have known to say "Yes SIR I would like another!"

AirTran MEC won the battle. SWA won the war.

 

[SWA/FO]

OMFG ........ Snorkel anyone ?

It's obvious that you handed him your Sac when you walked in the front door. Hardly surprising that SWAPA is merely a management rubber stamp.

Run on over to the APA thread. They need your expertise again.

Why ruin a good thing? My paycheck keeps coming in. Sorry your Management/Union like to fight so much.

 

[jonjuan]

AirTran MEC won the battle. SWA won the war.

You mean like the Vietnam war that many claimed we "won?"

 

[PCL_128]

Run on over to the APA thread. They need your expertise again.

:laugh:

 

[madjack]

SWA, SWAPA NC and AAI NC came up with SL9. AAI got SWA pay and CP/ATL seat locks for a decade!! AAI MEC would not let the mbrship judge the merits/pitfalls of SL9. GK did not want arby (his parogative) and by hinting at non-integration he was able to get SL10 passed overwhelmingly by both sides, (OBTW saving millions of dollars over SL9)...that is how it went down, blame who you want...

 

[GoodTimes]

Thank you , Madjack.

Concise summary.

Let's all move forward.

 

[stalker]

Is it true AAI pilots have grief counselors in the lounges to help some cope with this sli? Read it on another thread.

 

[texman]

I heard there is some type of dinner with GK coming.

 

[Cometman]

Is it true AAI pilots have grief counselors in the lounges to help some cope with this sli? Read it on another thread.

Where did you read this? If you read it post it. Why would they need grief counselors? If they need it for this then they probably should not be flying. Give me a break.

 

[PCL_128]

Is it true AAI pilots have grief counselors in the lounges to help some cope with this sli? Read it on another thread.

No, no grief counselors in the crew lounges. But the company did add a module to recurrent ground school about coping with grief.

 

[laker4284]

I would say it's the MEC's job to do what they think will produce the best deal for the pilot's, period. If the deal was less than what they thought they at least could get in arbitration, than why would they put a "train wreck" out to the pilots to vote on? It's not their fault SWA went back on their word.

I don't recall ever seeing a "guarantee of arbitration" made by SWA. I think the law says arbitration will occur if parties (the pilot groups) fail to agree.

Air Tran's union took a course that assumed that, if they played hard ball, they would get more. They assumed (there's that word again) that arbitration would be their fail safe.

However, SWA has a long history of pushing back HARD when it perceives that a party is being obstructionist or unreasonable. This forumwatches SWAPA negotiators and others warned the Air Tran pilots of that not insignificant fact. As the junior partner in a merger/acquisition there are perils that lurk.

In my estimation the ALPA MEC was too greedy and too militant to look at the SWA track record; too focused on more; and worst of all, they cut the rank and file out of the picture by not allowing them to choose. Ask former or current members of Muse, Frontier or ATA about that track record.

So the company said, "Are you sh-tting me?" when the game paying started and it cranked down hard on the thumb screws. Was anyone really surprised at that? Really? Then the Air Tran pilots took the offer (the parties agreed). Why? Because there are a lot of hidden traps, pitfalls and uncertainties in an merger/acquisition - even as there are in arbitration. Their MEC came to that realization too late in the game.

Air Tran's MEC gambled and lost, end of story.

 

[PCL_128]

I don't recall ever seeing a "guarantee of arbitration" made by SWA.

Then apparently you can't read. It was in the Process Agreement, clear as day.

 

[laker4284]

Ah,well. If you say so, I'm good with that. Of course, if the Air Tran MEC was shooting for the moon then perhaps the unspoken arbitration verbiage might have gone something like this, "Pending negotiations being conducted in a serious manner, real membership participation, no delays imposed in order to game the process, and with the company reserving the right to protect its business model." All if which could have been said, I guess. That, however, is like writing, "The sun will rise in the East" into a contract.

In short, they may have said arbitration was guaranteed (was there some small print you or I missed?) but, one would presume, IF ever got to that point and IF SWA didn't start selling off assets, etc. In any case, the Air Tran guys never hung in there to that point ( the ultimate gamble). They voted and signed and arbitration didn't come into play.

It's tough to be militant...and lose. Ask the Muse pilots, Eastern mechanics, etc.
Not letting the Air tran pilots vote on the initial offer clearly was a BAD idea.

 

[scoreboardII]

Then apparently you can't read. It was in the Process Agreement, clear as day.

You could have had arbitration, but you voted yes, end of story, lets move on.

 

[vixin]

But they were threatened.

Of course SWA pilots weren't and have nothing to complain about.:smash:

 

[Britpilot]

But they were threatened.

Of course SWA pilots weren't and have nothing to complain about.:smash:

Were you threatened with your job?

 

[Quimby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejbz4RVh0oU

 

[Cometman]

Were you threatened with your job?

The cry baby is back. Give up you little child.