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AirTran MEC Chair message.

Quiet Flight

I love your mom.
Joined
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Posts
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From AT MEC Chair...

Fellow Southwest Pilots (Uh, what?!),

Yes, I just did that, and for good reason. We are all Southwest pilots. (No WE are not.)

I know what you’re thinking, so before you start sending me nasty e-mails threatening my dog, let me explain.

Think back to the SWAPA Round-ups and the presentations made during the road shows for the seniority integration agreement. The overriding theme was that when we had an SIA, and after the Date of Corporate Closing (DOCC) and after the Single Operating Certificate (SOC) was granted, that we would be Southwest pilots and treated as such. However, the reality doesn’t look like what we expected. (Things change.)

We don’t feel like Southwest pilots. (You shouldn't because you're not. Comprende?) Or at least we don’t feel like we think Southwest pilots should feel (I'm sorry Oprah, what was that?), and that’s not good. It’s not good for us; it’s not good for the Company.

We are all too familiar with the history of the seniority integration process, and the contentiousness that it brought. There were many arguments, even among close friends, and many scars from that engagement. At times it felt like civil war.

Eventually, with a transition plan in place, things began to settle down. Despite our future loss of seniority (here we go...), I think we began to move on. There were a few small improvements to our quality of life: reduced insurance costs, a kinder-gentler scheduling department, new leadership in the training department, and Rob Amsler in the Chief Pilot’s Office. It was just a morsel of the Southwest culture.(You were lucky to get those considering you're not Southwest pilots.)

But then, as it often seems to do, the other shoe dropped. Southwest announced the B-717 sublease tentative agreement with Delta. (If this came as a surprise to any of you, you deserve to feel like a moron.)

In an instant, all of the goodwill and trust that management had worked to cultivate with our pilots vanished. Gone. Kaput. (Guess it wasn't true "trust" in the first place.) On top of that, some of the messaging from SWAPA on the day the B-717 deal was announced was read by many of our pilots as gloating. (You guys appear more and more sensitive with each passing day.)

Can these problems be fixed? I hope so — and believe so — not for only for our sakes, but for the sake of our Company. (At the rate the Tranny's are screwing up in transition training and failing IOE, it's doubtful there will be enough of you left to do any noticeable harm.)

First of all, we are all Southwest pilots. (Hasn't this been covered already?) It is time that we are recognized as such. (Why? You work for Critter therefore you are not SWA pilots.) There is only one master seniority list, and our names are on it, intertwined with our friends and colleagues across the partition. We are not in a “pool” waiting for a seniority number — we already have one; we fly Southwest owned and leased airplanes with a different paint scheme; and, our corporate address is no longer Orlando, Florida — it is Love Field, in Dallas, Texas, the home of our (Not yours) company, Southwest Airlines.

The MEC has tasked our Negotiating Committee with engaging the company (read: begin whining more loudly NC!) to ease the burden of this transition on our pilots — the Southwest pilots represented by ALPA. (For the record, there are currently NO SWA pilots represented by ALPA. There never have been.) Yesterday, the NC started that process by meeting with management in Dallas. The conversation was wide-ranging and overall could be described as fairly productive. To continue our talks, we are making arrangements to schedule a follow-up meeting in the coming weeks.

On Monday, Captain Jim Gallagher and I will join ALPA executive administrator Capt. Tim Canoll and ALPA Directors Bruce York and Jon Cohen in Dallas for a meeting with SWAPA to move forward the process of transferring representation. While I believe the events of the past few weeks demonstrate the benefit of ALPA to our pilots, it is in the long-term interest of all Southwest pilots to have a single voice (This is actually a valid point. So you're up to 1 now.), regardless of the color of the airplane they are flying. It is also important that SWAPA recognize that former AirTran pilots will soon comprise almost a quarter of their membership, and it is to their benefit to consider the impact of their actions and statements on the future of the organization in a post-SOC world. (Was that a threat?)

I spent most of this week meeting with the MEC, discussing these issues. For a while, we were joined by Southwest Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer Mike Van de Ven as well as Southwest Executive Vice President & Chief Commercial Officer Bob Jordan. We shared with them all of the feedback that you have given us over the past few weeks, both good and bad. We were brutally honest and I think they appreciated it. I also think they now understand that there is a unique opportunity for the Company to demonstrate the values for which it is famous, not the least of which is its commitment to its employees. (Good thing you cleared that up for them. Amazing they were able to do it for 40+ years without you Jim.)

Having spent four years in Missouri, the “Show Me State,” I learned a good deal about Midwestern values and skepticism. True character is displayed through action, not words. (If this is true, could you ask your pilots to shut up and color? Come to work as a SWA pilot AFTER completing transition training and IOE with hat in hand like the rest of us did. Be quiet, play nice, fly, get paid and go home.) This is the time for Southwest management to show me, and you, that we are all an integral part of the team. I trust that they will. (Don't count on it.)

I’ll see you at the airport.

Capt. Jim Morris, Chairman
Your ATN Master Executive Council (ATN? Thought you said you were SWA ALPA...)
 

fletch717

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I noticed you didn't post after your swapa pres wrote his message gloating over the loss of our capt seats........dick
 
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Bringupthebird

Grumpy? Who-Me?
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If you are trying to pretend to be a USAPA angry F/O, you're doing it all wrong. Have one of them show you how to hold your mouth the right way.
 

Lear70

JAFFO
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(At the rate the Tranny's are screwing up in transition training and failing IOE, it's doubtful there will be enough of you left to do any noticeable harm.)
Care to elaborate?

At last report, no one had failed any portion of training, including IOE. One person went home with personal issues and is back in training, but that's the only reported "blip" so far, so please explain...

As for the rest, why the hostility? He's sending a message to Southwest management, how does it affect you for your alter-ego lower-cost carrier to get some type of compensation for such a huge alteration in the SIA that was agreed to where we gave up seniority for CA seats on an airplane that now will no longer be here?

The logical thing to do would be for YOU to WANT us on pay parity, so as to eliminate the incentive for management to operate us past 1/1/15... that's in YOUR best interest, as well as ours, so again, and this is a genuine question, why the hostility?

Can't we all just get along? ;)
 

Kharma Police

Don't mess with Texas
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Quiet Flight = RSWDB*


*Real Southwest Doosh Bag
 

Dan Roman

Well-known member
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Posts
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Someone needs to get little quitef a sticker that says "I bought my type did you?"
 

BR715

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Just not pay parity. I believe that once an AT Captain loses his seat he should keep the Captain pay. Or at least stay at his or her current hourly rate.
 

fletch717

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Posts
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Quiet fight...... That's what the male flight attendants call him, he struggles just enough to enhance their pleasure. Just wait until you fly with some of our boys, your dance card will be full every night. I guess that will make you very happy.
 

PCL_128

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5000+
"[T]he Southwest pilots represented by ALPA." I love it! Well done, Jim.
 

Ty Webb

Hostage to Fortune
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Quiet flight, you are a truly classless and pathetic little man.

Btw, a good friend who was in the third transition class just finished training and reports that every pilot, without exception, has succesfully completed training... Which shows even more what a deranged little bed-wetter you really are.:bawling:
 

MILF Hunter

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how does it affect you for your alter-ego lower-cost carrier to get some type of compensation for such a huge alteration in the SIA that was agreed to where we gave up seniority for CA seats on an airplane that now will no longer be here?

The logical thing to do would be for YOU to WANT us on pay parity, so as to eliminate the incentive for management to operate us past 1/1/15... that's in YOUR best interest, as well as ours

For me, Lear, its quite simple. ATN ALPA rejected a deal with the pay and protections. Y'all then accepted a deal that provided more seniority for a greater number of your pilots, but with less money. Your pilots paid a price for the increase in seniority.

Suppose SL10 had everything we voted on, but with pay parity for your pilots. Would we have felt you were getting too much? Would that have affected the outcome of our vote?

Perhaps we should say that because the 717 deal will put more ATN pilots in our system more quickly, we will need ROR to all our bases so the monthly +/- doesn't unfairly impact our pilots.

Further, I don't see the 'logic' in pay parity. If the company operates you past 1/1/15, they will be in violation and will have to work out something with SWAPA. While I appreciate your concern for whats in our best interest, parity is not. The company will be in violation whether you get pay parity or not, so why would it really concern me?
 

TahoeBoarder

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I can't believe some of you (AT) think you are negotiating for pay parity. ALPA needs to manage your expectations better. SWA will not be renegotiating your pay rates while on the AT side--I guarantee it.
I understand your pain and angst with change and transition, but expecting SWA pay rates is delusional at this point.
 

madjack

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The logical thing to do would be for YOU to WANT us on pay parity, so as to eliminate the incentive for management to operate us past 1/1/15...

Could not agree more! Unfortunately there are lot of SWA F/Os facing displacement as more senior AAI pilots transition to the SWA side, you must understand that those folks may not be feeling the LUV either...
 

Lear70

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Thanks for the reasonable post, I appreciate it.

For me, Lear, its quite simple. ATN ALPA rejected a deal with the pay and protections. Y'all then accepted a deal that provided more seniority for a greater number of your pilots, but with less money. Your pilots paid a price for the increase in seniority.
True, but that's only HALF the story. I know, because I was in the room. We ALSO took LESS seniority because we were going to retain our 717 Captain slots. That was very specifically discussed. If we had not been given our 717 Captain seats, we would have wanted more seniority so that more of our Captains would be able to hold Captain on the Southwest side of the partition. So now we have a situation where they're taking away part of what we negotiated, and that simply isn't right.

Suppose SL10 had everything we voted on, but with pay parity for your pilots. Would we have felt you were getting too much? Would that have affected the outcome of our vote?
Possibly. However, we had no say in SL10. Just as these negotiations will be on our side of the fence and SWAPA has no say. You can support us or not support us, it really isn't germane to the discussion. It *IS*, however, why we cannot negotiate Captain pay protection on the Southwest side of the fence - that would be a SWAPA CBA issue and we have no input in that whatsoever.

Perhaps we should say that because the 717 deal will put more ATN pilots in our system more quickly, we will need ROR to all our bases so the monthly +/- doesn't unfairly impact our pilots.
Excellent, you are partially making out point for us. First, however, this will not put MORE ATN pilots in your system more quickly, it actually DELAYS them coming over until well past 2015. 36 717's will still be left to transition to Delta in 2015.

Back to the point, your idea of the negative impact of earlier 717-737 pilot transition makes you want something in return, ROR to your bases. So why, since the 717 deal unfairly impacts our pilots, should WE not want something to offset it?

Personally I have no problem with you guys having a one-time RoR to the base you held prior to the announcement, as long as we get pay parity. Done deal, let's go tell GK we have it all worked out. ;) Once everyone is over and that one-time RoR is exercised, the playing field is leveled, and we all bid bases per the ISL, with our greatly diminished seniority, that shouldn't be a problem, right?

Further, I don't see the 'logic' in pay parity. If the company operates you past 1/1/15, they will be in violation and will have to work out something with SWAPA.
We will see...

While I appreciate your concern for whats in our best interest, parity is not. The company will be in violation whether you get pay parity or not, so why would it really concern me?
Again, it doesn't hurt you, and the push against it seems to be nothing but spite. Why does it "hurt" you for us to have pay parity? Not how "it isn't in line with the SIA", but how, specifically, would it cause Southwest pilots harm?

If you don't see why an alter-ego carrier operating all your international at greatly reduced pay rates is a problem, then I'm simply speechless. We're going to have to simply agree to disagree on the 1/1/15 "violation" issue. The loophole is there, just as there have been in just about everything else.
 

4day

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It is very apparent that it is every man for himself in this LUVless merger. They don't give a crap about me and I don't give a crap abou them.
 

chjack

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It is very apparent that it is every man for himself in this LUVless merger. They don't give a crap about me and I don't give a crap abou them.

Yeah. that was truly one of the most classless posts ive ever seen on FI, and thats saying A LOT!
 

Dan Roman

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Sorry Bubba I forgot.......Little quiteflight must have that warrior spirit thing going, you can even see it in his avatar!
 
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