AirTran MEC Chair message.

[SWA/FO]

Air Tran's MEC gambled and lost, end of story.

Yep, now its everyones elses fault. :bawling:

 

[freightdogfred]

Ok, we get it...The AT MEC screwed the FL group. I'm sure most of the guys won't make the same mistake again, and won't be lining up to join the SWAPA union.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

To the AT group, nobody is forcing you to stay at SWA, you do have have several choices:
1. Leave and go to another airline
2. Leave and change jobs
3. Leave and stay home and do nothing

OR JUST GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE AND BE THANKFUL YOU WERE NOT PUT OUT ON THE STREET AND WERE GIVEN THE OPERTUNITY TO APPLY FOR A PILOTS JOB AT SWA - THERE ARE LOTS OF PILOTS OUT THERE WOULD WISH THEY HAD YOUR PROBLEMS AND WERE WORKING FOR SWA.

 

[ASADFW7]

I would rather be an Airtran pilot than Midwest, Frontier, or back at ASA. A lot of crap happens in the airline industry and getting caught up with SWA isn't that bad. Even if it takes a couple years to sort out.

 

[Tripower455]

Ok, we get it...The AT MEC screwed the FL group. I'm sure most of the guys won't make the same mistake again, and won't be lining up to join the SWAPA union.

They don't have to join, but they still have to pay SWAPA dues if they don't......

 

[Secret Squirrel]

We have a bunch of dues paying non members here at ATN. And apparently a bunch of people that have quit paying dues altogether. They actually had to put out a message warning people of the consequences. Amazing the number of people I have flown with who said they have stopped automatic withdraw of dues and are not going to send the check.

 

[PCL_128]

If they don't send the check, they're going to get fired and lose their SWA seniority number. Not very smart.

 

[humveedriver]

To the AT group, nobody is forcing you to stay at SWA, you do have have several choices:
1. Leave and go to another airline
2. Leave and change jobs
3. Leave and stay home and do nothing

OR JUST GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE AND BE THANKFUL YOU WERE NOT PUT OUT ON THE STREET AND WERE GIVEN THE OPERTUNITY TO APPLY FOR A PILOTS JOB AT SWA - THERE ARE LOTS OF PILOTS OUT THERE WOULD WISH THEY HAD YOUR PROBLEMS AND WERE WORKING FOR SWA.

Being put on the street was addressed during the anti-trust Senate subcommittee hearings but thanks for your concern. I completely agree with the rest of your statement. Our worst day at SWA post announcement is still going to be better than almost any other airline's best day, under the current conditions and contracts. I see DAL as the only other airline that isn't in the toilet morale wise. Even after their last contract and merger.

-I suppose the Hawaiin an Alaska guys are doing pretty good. Sorry I wasn't thinking of y'all.

 

[Jim]

Our worst day at SWA post announcement is still going to be better than almost any other airline's best day, under the current conditions and contracts.

That's a matter of opinion. 6 months after returning from a 5 year furlough, I got a call for an interview at SWA. I declined without a second thought. Life is good.

 

[K-Mart]

If they don't send the check, they're going to get fired and lose their SWA seniority number. Not very smart.

Come on? Firing them?? Good luck with that one.

 

[SWA/FO]

That's a matter of opinion. 6 months after returning from a 5 year furlough, I got a call for an interview at SWA. I declined without a second thought. Life is good.

Was it the Southwest Airlines Draft 2012? Or did you apply? Sounds like you were discovered and they called you out of the blue.

I actually had to apply. I'm not as lucky as you.

Life is full of choices.

 

[Jim]

Was it the Southwest Airlines Draft 2012? Or did you apply? Sounds like you were discovered and they called you out of the blue.

I actually had to apply. I'm not as lucky as you.

Life is full of choices.

I applied a couple of years before while on furlough. I guess it took that long for them to notice my app.

 

[Skyboy722]

That's a matter of opinion. 6 months after returning from a 5 year furlough, I got a call for an interview at SWA. I declined without a second thought. Life is good.

So I guess the five year furlough didn't bother you, huh?

 

[PCL_128]

Come on? Firing them?? Good luck with that one.

Apparently you aren't familiar with agency shop provisions in a CBA. Yes, if they don't pay their dues, the contract says they get fired. ALPA takes it seriously. Freeloaders are not allowed to go unchecked.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

I applied a couple of years before while on furlough. I guess it took that long for them to notice my app.

Your stuff wouldn't have stayed active in the system for "a couple of years." You are lying.

 

[dh82dvr]

Apparently you aren't familiar with agency shop provisions in a CBA. Yes, if they don't pay their dues, the contract says they get fired. ALPA takes it seriously. Freeloaders are not allowed to go unchecked.

The CBA might say you have to pay, but does it make it right? Shouldn't you get a choice? If you did then unions would have to ensure they provide a service that is worth paying for. So the freeloaders are exercising their right to say I don't like what you are selling.

:beer:

 

[rjfo]

Apparently you aren't familiar with agency shop provisions in a CBA. Yes, if they don't pay their dues, the contract says they get fired. ALPA takes it seriously. Freeloaders are not allowed to go unchecked.

Who fires them? ALPA or southwest. I don't think belonging to a union is a requirement for the job. Maybe they lose their spot on the seniority list, but who will enforce it?

 

[Andy]

Apparently you aren't familiar with agency shop provisions in a CBA. Yes, if they don't pay their dues, the contract says they get fired. ALPA takes it seriously. Freeloaders are not allowed to go unchecked.

Yes, you can be terminated for failure to pay dues. And my understanding is that ALPA is pretty aggressive about doing so.

... which brings me to something that happened to me when I returned to work at an ALPA carrier after being furloughed in 2009 thanks to age 65 which was supported/pushed through Congress by ALPA.
I got a letter from ALPA claiming that they 'audited' my pay from 2008 and that I underpaid dues by ~$50. BS! I've checked my pay and there's never been a shortfall in the amount taken out for ALPA. I complained to ALPA and it's still under review. IF ALPA decides that I still owe the money, I will be forced to pay it due to the fact that they can terminate my employment. If they opt for that course of action, I will be suing ALPA in small claims court for the maximum amount possible.
I am soooo sick of ALPA.

 

[Jim]

Your stuff wouldn't have stayed active in the system for "a couple of years." You are lying.

I filled out the online SWA app around the middle of my furlough. I updated it a few times while still on furlough. I got recalled in Jan. 2008 and a call to interview from SWA in late spring/early summer 2008.

If you think I'm lying, that's your prerogative. I really don't care. The point is that there are airlines other than SWA that people are happy to work for and where it is fun. I'm sorry that some people just can't understand or accept that.

 

[Jim]

So I guess the five year furlough didn't bother you, huh?

No, it bothered me. But Hawaiian was always my first choice of airline and where I wanted to be. I was always planning on coming back no matter who hired me while I was on furlough.

 

[K-Mart]

Apparently you aren't familiar with agency shop provisions in a CBA. Yes, if they don't pay their dues, the contract says they get fired. ALPA takes it seriously. Freeloaders are not allowed to go unchecked.

ALPA takes it seriously? Serious enough to let a bunch of scabs back in.

I know they can be fired but what really happens is a different reality.

 

[PCL_128]

Who fires them? ALPA or southwest. I don't think belonging to a union is a requirement for the job. Maybe they lose their spot on the seniority list, but who will enforce it?

ALPA sends a letter to the company informing them that they are required to terminate the pilot's employment for failure to pay dues. If management refuses, then it goes to an expedited arbitration, and the arbitrator orders the pilot terminated. Generally an arbitrator isn't necessary, though. The company tells the pilot that he's going to be fired, and he pays up.

 

[Flyer1015]

ALPA sends a letter to the company informing them that they are required to terminate the pilot's employment for failure to pay dues. If management refuses, then it goes to an expedited arbitration, and the arbitrator orders the pilot terminated. Generally an arbitrator isn't necessary, though. The company tells the pilot that he's going to be fired, and he pays up.

Of course you can be fired for not paying dues. Those Mercedes S classes and filet mignon dinners at Herndon aren't free!

 

[Cometman]

ALPA sends a letter to the company informing them that they are required to terminate the pilot's employment for failure to pay dues. If management refuses, then it goes to an expedited arbitration, and the arbitrator orders the pilot terminated. Generally an arbitrator isn't necessary, though. The company tells the pilot that he's going to be fired, and he pays up.

Is this standard language in contracts for the airline industry? Apparently it is in ALPA contracts does it apply to SWAPA? Hopefully it does.

 

[FIREMAN]

Who fires them? ALPA or southwest. I don't think belonging to a union is a requirement for the job. Maybe they lose their spot on the seniority list, but who will enforce it?

You do not have to be an ALPA member. But, you do have to pay a maintenance fee to the union. There are ways not to pay the fee like getting kicked out of the union.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

How come that is the Only expedited arbitration in our contracts? This "expedited arbitration" thing should be for everything! Employee violates ALPA part of contract .... Expedited termination. Company violates contract... Dragged out process that may or may not end up in arbitration three years after violation.

 

[redflyer65]

I'm going to need some popcorn and a drink for this one.

It's starting to heat up.

 

[Tripower455]

Is this standard language in contracts for the airline industry? Apparently it is in ALPA contracts does it apply to SWAPA? Hopefully it does.

SW is an "Agency Shop".... You don't have to join the union, but you have to pay the dues.

 

[PCL_128]

Is this standard language in contracts for the airline industry? Apparently it is in ALPA contracts does it apply to SWAPA? Hopefully it does.

Yep, it's standard. FedEx didn't have it until 2006, and they were the last big hold-out. There may be some regional carriers without it, but I can't think of any off of the top of my head. SWAPA's contract does include agency shop, and last I heard, there were no non-member at Southwest at all. I'll hand it to SWAPA, that's a great accomplishment.

 

[FlyinGuy]

I filled out the online SWA app around the middle of my furlough. I updated it a few times while still on furlough. I got recalled in Jan. 2008 and a call to interview from SWA in late spring/early summer 2008.

If you think I'm lying, that's your prerogative. I really don't care. The point is that there are airlines other than SWA that people are happy to work for and where it is fun. I'm sorry that some people just can't understand or accept that.

Who cares???