AirTran MEC at SWAPA

[roughneck]

STAPLE TY to the bottom.

I was thinking preferential interview for Dicko.

 

[SWA/FO]

Pilots are a bunch of morons with no concept of unionism. SWA was a stepping stone to the majors back in the 90's. A PFT outfit. SWA is no better then Airtran. Airtran was on the same path as SWA 10 hrs ago.

From a dispatcher? Are you kidding me. Dispatchers are want-to-be Pilots that didn't make the cut, anywhere.

 

[GuppyWN]

If we go DOH I've got dibs on 1992.

Gup

 

[texman]

Heck if that is the case, I will go for 1971.

 

[rajflyboy]

Not to worry. The AT LEC cannot "screw" this up. It will be strictly decided by the arbitrator. Seniority will definately be an issue. I would'nt worry about the benefits, they will fall into place naturally enough. It's in no one's interest to have differing pay scales or benefit packages. Especially SW management.

Pipe Dreams

 

[Lear70]

Pipe Dreams

Which part?

1. It's going to arbitration (more than likely).
2. Seniority will likely be one of the few remaining items to decide, most of the other items will likely be agreed upon before they let an arbitrator have it.
3. There won't be separate ops or a B-scale once the SLI is decided, the companies will more than likely be combined and operated as one within a year or so.

Sounds reasonable enough, what part of that is a pipe dream?

 

[waveflyer]

It should not be a foregone conclusion that arbitration will happen- that's why rationality and a release of any expectations should be paramount

 

[Ty Webb]

It should not be a foregone conclusion that arbitration will happen- that's why rationality and a release of any expectations should be paramount

That would be preferable, but any proposed ISL will have to pass a vote of both Pilot groups . . . . .that seems like quite a hurdle.

 

[SWA/FO]

That would be preferable, but any proposed ISL will have to pass a vote of both Pilot groups . . . . .that seems like quite a hurdle.

Thats just great, but what about the SLI?

 

[jonjuan]

Heck if that is the case, I will go for 1971.

Your funeral then was last week.

 

[Ty Webb]

Thats just great, but what about the SLI?

SLI is the process- Seniority List Integration

ISL is the product of that process- an Integrated Seniority List

Ty

 

[Lear70]

It should not be a foregone conclusion that arbitration will happen- that's why rationality and a release of any expectations should be paramount

True enough... And I hope it's not, but the realist in me is beginning to feel that the divide may be too wide to bridge to pass vote with BOTH pilot groups.

Thats just great, but what about the SLI?

And that ILS with the old 6-pack instrumentation,,, don't forget about THAT!

 

[tomgoodman]

Self-protection

Even if both MECs, in a burst of reason and good will, reach agreement, they might be wise to pretend they're still deadlocked. Then they call in the arbitrator and say: "Here's the list. You announce it; we'll denounce it."

 

[Lonestar]

2. Seniority will likely be one of the few remaining items to decide, most of the other items will likely be agreed upon before they let an arbitrator have it.

The other items you're refering to would be the transition agreement? That's the agreement between SWAPA and SWA as to when and how to bring AT into the fold.

Since nothing in this acquisition will be in violation of your contract, why do you now have a 'Transition Team' headed by your MEC chair? So much for letting you merger and nc committees do their job 'autonomously'!

 

[waveflyer]

Yeah- but where are you getting those feelings, Lear?- I'd caution if too much of those feelings come from Internet exchanges and hearsay-

 

[Lear70]

Yeah- but where are you getting those feelings, Lear?- I'd caution if too much of those feelings come from Internet exchanges and hearsay-

Possibly,,, I'm hopeful, and in my conversations with my friends at SWA and my AAI coworkers, everyone I've talked to is professional, looks forward to a positive future, and wants to be reasonable, but it's just going to be a tough list to merge, truthfully, while trying to address enough of the "majority" of concerns in order to pass vote on both sides.

 

[Ty Webb]

The other items you're refering to would be the transition agreement? That's the agreement between SWAPA and SWA as to when and how to bring AT into the fold.

Since nothing in this acquisition will be in violation of your contract, why do you now have a 'Transition Team' headed by your MEC chair? So much for letting you merger and nc committees do their job 'autonomously'!

The Transition agreement does impact both airlines, Lonestar, and governs how things will happen. There are a number of things that will conflict with our Contract, bases, training, bidding, new flying, etc.

Not to jinx anyone, but USAirways is STILL operating under their Transition Agreement, four years later. It's an important document that affects us as well as you, and that's why we need to be a part of that process.

 

[ivauir]

Even if both MECs, in a burst of reason and good will, reach agreement, they might be wise to pretend they're still deadlocked. Then they call in the arbitrator and say: "Here's the list. You announce it; we'll denounce it."

I expect better from my union then the coward's way out.

 

[Lonestar]

The Transition agreement does impact both airlines, Lonestar, and governs how things will happen. There are a number of things that will conflict with our Contract, bases, training, bidding, new flying, etc.

Not to jinx anyone, but USAirways is STILL operating under their Transition Agreement, four years later. It's an important document that affects us as well as you, and that's why we need to be a part of that process.

Ty, do you really think SWA cares about any of the conflicts with your contract? Given your recent lottery win, do you think there is a judge anywhere that will force SWA to address any conflicts with your contract?

Several ATN ALPA guys here have stated that they would have a judge force SWA to adhere to provisions in your contract. Good luck with that! My guess would be that pushing SWA that hard would ensure your future as a wholly-owned 717 operator with a substandard contract.

At the end of the day, AAI is being acquired. You will all receive huge gains in every section of your contract...gains you never would have achieved on your own.

 

[Lonestar]

One other point Ty, regarding your concerns over new flying at AAI. There's no need to worry about that because there won't be any!

 

[Aviator2010]

I guess if the Southwest pilots are not happy with an arbitrators award we could vote in a new union just like US Airways and don't recognize the award. Then just drag it thru courts for years. That would leave AT with their old contract and pay.

 

[roughneck]

The Transition agreement does impact both airlines, Lonestar, and governs how things will happen.

I have confidence that Swapa will take care of us. I hope AirTran Alpa has vocalized their specific contract concerns to Swapa so those items can be brought up when Swapa meets with SWA to negotiate a transition agreement.

 

[Kharma Police]

I guess if the Southwest pilots are not happy with an arbitrators award we could vote in a new union just like US Airways and don't recognize the award. Then just drag it thru courts for years. That would leave AT with their old contract and pay.

That reminds me of an old SNL skit for, "Bad Idea Jeans".

Normally I wear protection, but then I thought, "When am I gonna make it back to Haiti?"

http://www.hulu.com/watch/10310/saturday-night-live-bad-idea-jeans


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bad+idea+jeans

 

[S3sundowner]

Deleted

 

[Lear70]

Actually, Sundowner, you're not far off, it was a good post, you should have left it up.

What has to be negotiated is how modifications will be made to OUR contract as we're transitioned into one operating airline BEFORE the SLI is done and before we're represented by SWAPA. We don't negotiate that with our company, we negotiate that with SWAPA and SWA management, as that transition will be done AFTER DOCC, and SWA management will have operational control during the transition.

I wish I had a copy of the briefing our MC gave us at the LEC meeting last Monday, it was good, and went over what we're currently discussing both in terms of SLI and in terms of other items that have to be dealt with, including the Process Agreement which was reported to be almost finished.

One thing that WAS made VERY clear: there will be no JCBA. The next contract that is ratified between SWAPA and SWA will be a SWAPA contract, not an ALPA contract.

 

[PapaWoody]

That reminds me of an old SNL skit for, "Bad Idea Jeans".

Normally I wear protection, but then I thought, "When am I gonna make it back to Haiti?"

http://www.hulu.com/watch/10310/saturday-night-live-bad-idea-jeans


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bad+idea+jeans

That is probably my favorite SNL fake ad! Then, when Marshall referenced it during an episode of "How I Met Your Mother", it shot HIMYM to the top of my favorite current TV shows. Now back to re-doing the plumbing in my rental house....

PW

And PS, I totally agree with you that even contemplating a USAir type move would be Bad Idea Jeans.

 

[sixlegs]

I'm done with all this. I came here to learn the thoughts of both sides. I work at SWA. After reading all this crap here - I welcome arbritration. I came here to learn the thoughts of our future friends and coworkers, and all I am hearing is the poison from our apparant emeny. Enough talk. Bring on arbritration. You and yours will lose big (ala Chautauqua / Shuttle America). I'm now, not against dragging this thing out and making you guys enjoy "all that you bring to the table" for many extra years while I continue to have excellent QOL and pay. As a senior guy, I am extremely dissapointed from what I have read. I'll be pressing our BOD to stop with the generosity (which I was very vocal of) and now go for the jugular.

You won't hear any more posts from me on this subject.
Bring on the Lawyers, bring em' slowly - no fences.
-Sixlegs

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty, do you really think SWA cares about any of the conflicts with your contract? Given your recent lottery win, do you think there is a judge anywhere that will force SWA to address any conflicts with your contract?

Several ATN ALPA guys here have stated that they would have a judge force SWA to adhere to provisions in your contract. Good luck with that! My guess would be that pushing SWA that hard would ensure your future as a wholly-owned 717 operator with a substandard contract.

At the end of the day, AAI is being acquired. You will all receive huge gains in every section of your contract...gains you never would have achieved on your own.

Lonestar,

I thought you were one of the more reasonable people on this forum. The Transition Agreement is important to both Pilot Groups. I have no idea why my post pushed you over the edge. Who pissed in your corn flakes this morning?

AAI Pilots have a Contract. SWA Pilots have a contract. Until we (AAI Pilots) are part of your contract, our contract needs to be respected. I'm not sure why you chose to take umbrage with this, it would seem to be pretty self-evident. What do you think we would be working under in the interim? Your union understands it. SWA management understands it, you seem to be the one person that doesn't understand it.

 

[Ty Webb]

Don't let the screen door hit you!

I'm done with all this. I came here to learn the thoughts of both sides. I work at SWA. After reading all this crap here - I welcome arbritration. I came here to learn the thoughts of our future friends and coworkers, and all I am hearing is the poison from our apparant emeny.

This is your fourth post on FI. Your previous three posts (in the LCC Forum) described how you

" . . . expect AirTran to give up every Captains' seat . . . . .".

and then you complain here that you're leaving because you're "hearing poison from our apparent enemy".

I'll be pressing our BOD to stop with the generosity (which I was very vocal of) and now go for the jugular.

You won't hear any more posts from me on this subject.
Bring on the Lawyers, bring em' slowly - no fences.
-Sixlegs

So, stealing Captain seats is your idea of generosity, huh? And if we don't like it, we are the enemy?

Since the Pilots with the most extreme views are the ones likely to be the most disappointed, we'll put you down in the "Likely to be Severely Disappointed" column. Don't let the screen door hit you . . . . :laugh:

 

[dicko]

I'm done with all this. I came here to learn the thoughts of both sides. I work at SWA.


You came here on Dec 12 to learn, and posted this on the 13th:

"It's laughable......... and hoping this thing goes to arbritration...... No arbritor (in this case, three of them) would give AT the windfall they are asking for. I'm thinking this thing will play out like the Chautauqua SLI award. I see them integrated, after the big picture with work rules, pay, health insurance, scope, management relations, etc.... near the bottom of the SWA list..... with no AT captain's seats held........ sorry fellas'..... just my prediction........ talk amongst yourselves.
-sixlegs "


I'll be pressing our BOD to stop with the generosity (which I was very vocal of)

Generosity ?

You won't hear any more posts from me on this subject.
Bring on the Lawyers, bring em' slowly - no fences.
-Sixlegs

Really ..... ? Please read your four posts again. They sound like the ranting of an angry man. Not somebody who tried to learn anything.

Coming here to learn something about 1700 pilots is not effective.