Airtran has reached a tentative agreement!!

[slaquer5]

Get a grip ......He's a Southwest pilot.

I have heard many of our FAs say that

 

[Clyde Frog]

Lear,
Hope you guys are smart on this. It would be a real shame for you guys if your senior captains screwed everyone else out of the deal of a life time.

You know what else was a "deal of a lifetime"? Getting hired at UAL in 2000.

Times change, nothing is guaranteed.

-back on topic-

The TA is shaping up to be a miserable failure of nearly every stated goal we've been expecting. Standby for details.

 

[scarlet]

Yeah all you guys are just classic. Lets vote it down and get nothing and no release=real smart one of genius ! Lets vote no because I do not need 20.00 hour raise I wanted 24.00 raise. Yeah I admit the bonus sucks, but they really didn't have to settle it at all. Yeah I would have loved to have received AL rates, but the game has changed.

So if its voted down, tell us wise ones...NO really you have all the answers=what do we do then? How long will it take for me to get that 24.00 raise and an extra 4-5k signing bonus. 1-2 years if at all. So I lose 40k while I wait=SMART ALPA is going to take 2%. Its not retro pay=ALPA deserves NOTHING ! 2% of earnings. Bonus is not an earning.

Voting YES, as I figure 40% of FOs need that 20-23.00 hour raise and top 15% of cpts will vote for it. Will pass with over 65% !!

Lets get voting !

 

[swa737-700]

Sorry, but that's not how it works. Our TA has holding company language, which requires SWA to adhere to the terms of our merger protections after the transaction date. The merger agreement between the two companies also requires SWA to comply with our contract until we're combined and under a single agreement. That means that the 18 month limit is controlling, assuming the TA ratifies.



It's not 18 months from the announcement, it's 18 months from the DOCC.

Living in a dream my friend.

 

[bravodude]

Sorry, but that's not how it works. Our TA has holding company language, which requires SWA to adhere to the terms of our merger protections after the transaction date. The merger agreement between the two companies also requires SWA to comply with our contract until we're combined and under a single agreement. That means that the 18 month limit is controlling, assuming the TA ratifies.



It's not 18 months from the announcement, it's 18 months from the DOCC.

I remember a certain someone vowing to quit if they were bought by SWA. ( that would be you ) I'm just curious how that is going.

 

[jonjuan]

I remember a certain someone vowing to quit if they were bought by SWA. ( that would be you ) I'm just curious how that is going.

He meant she would quit alpa.

 

[Lear70]

You sound like one level headed Air Tran Pilot that sees this deal for what it really is. Great attitude and hopefully all the other pilots will realize this is a once in a life opportunity. However, your friend Lear probably won't get it.

You obviously have an opinion; you're entitled to it. I have mine, too. Insinuating that I somehow have a bad attitude about it is highly indicative of where you stand on the issue, seeing as I have only repeatedly said it has to be fair and equitable. What that tells me is that you simply don't LIKE where I stand on the issue, and choose to attack ME rather than the issue itself. Heck, I've been on here DEFENDING your pilots from time to time, but I'm still the one with the bad attitude? mmkay.

Again, I'm not going to get dragged into a fight about it. This thread is about the T.A., and I'm avoiding (as much as I can humanly resist) talking about the SLI on ANY thread on here. Several Southwest pilots on here and I have talked via PM and we've all agreed, nothing is going to be resolved on this board, so we'll just avoid it as much as possible.

The moderators on this site are a joke. They pick and choose which threads they want to moderate.
Becareful when treading on an anti Air tran thread, or they'll put you in the penalty box.

There isn't an anti-AirTran thread.

I'm the only AirTran pilot who moderates this board.

I stay hands off the website unless people can't figure out how to follow the rules. When someone reports a post, I act accordingly. Most of the other threads I don't even read, nor do most of the mods; we rely on the membership to alert us when a thread is offensive. Sometimes we take action, however we ignore FAR more posts than most people realize.

Again, someone else attacking the person (me) rather than attacking the issue they don't like. If you don't like it, email the webmaster. If that doesn't get you anywhere and you STILL don't like it, find another message board that conforms to your version of right and wrong or go start your own.

/mod

Back on track, details on the pay scales are coming out and... well... it's not pretty. Turns out what I told management in negotiations in D.C. back 3 years ago was actually paid attention to: I told them they didn't understand their voting demographic and had structured the raises at the wrong end of the spectrum to get a deal passed. Management figured out their demographic this time and has structured the pay raises to get the vote passed.

F/O's fare the best, with 20-25% raises across the board, some years more than others (3-7), Senior Captains get a larger percentage of the signing bonus and an 8-9% raise, keeping them around the industry average, but the real losers are the junior Captains, who will actually take a pay CUT. How? Easy. We lost Twomey-Kasher and the 8% pay raise is offset by the 10% cut in credit on reserve with the loss of Twomey-Kasher.

Not sure how they're going to spin this one, but years 6 and 7 Captains are going to take it in the shorts from what I've seen so far. At least the reserve rules will help make reserve more palatable along with their pay cut. *disgustedly shaking head*.

Keep staring at the pretty purple and orange kitty, folks. Sad thing is, it will probably pass anyway, despite selling a segment of the seniority list down the river. *sigh*

 

[Midge]

There isn't an anti-AirTran thread.

I'm the only AirTran pilot who moderates this board.

I stay hands off the website unless people can't figure out how to follow the rules. When someone reports a post, I act accordingly. Most of the other threads I don't even read, nor do most of the mods; we rely on the membership to alert us when a thread is offensive. Sometimes we take action, however we ignore FAR more posts than most people realize.

Again, someone else attacking the person (me) rather than attacking the issue they don't like. If you don't like it, email the webmaster. If that doesn't get you anywhere and you STILL don't like it, find another message board that conforms to your version of right and wrong or go start your own.

/mod

Bull!
I've seen you guys go off on members, even as far as another moderator calling someone an (censored)!
Why wasn't that moderator banned?
It seems that when talking points hit close to home, you should remove yourself from the fray as to not affect your ability to moderate.
Either way this forum is a joke compared to what it used to be, and that's one reason I don't really come around here much any more.

 

[luv2fly]

Just a couple quick questions for Lear70. Have you interviewed at SWA before? Do you or have you had an application in at SWA?

Just curious!

 

[vixin]

Of course he will say NO and NO even if he did. He also never applied or wanted to work at SWA. Nor will he answer what is fair and equitable?

 

[ASADFW7]

I am glad the AT reached at TA ya'all need to get used to making a decent wage for flying narrow bodies. As for what happens with SLI, I sleep better knowing that whatever happens life is good.

 

[doh]

Of course he will say NO and NO even if he did. He also never applied or wanted to work at SWA. Nor will he answer what is fair and equitable?

Everyone with a lick of sense know how to define "fair and equitable": whatever you can convince the arbitrator(s) to rule in favor of. Your individual thoughts, feelings, desires, reasons, etc. don't mean sh.t, only what the arbitrator(s) deem fair and equitable matters. Do I win a prize for answering the question?

PS, I have never applied at SWA, but I think it is a great place. If I hadn't latched onto my present gig, I would definitely have gladly applied and flown at SWA. Do I get a bonus prize for that answer?

 

[Lear70]

Of course he will say NO and NO even if he did. He also never applied or wanted to work at SWA. Nor will he answer what is fair and equitable?

Yes, and yes. If you want details, PM me or ask me in a Southwest thread. I'm not going to allow this thread to be hijacked further.

As far as discussing "fair and equitable", I've said it once and I'll say it again: Our MEC has asked us NOT to discuss that on a message board, and I won't. You can keep asking or making sarcastic remarks about it, but I'm not going to get into it with you or anyone else. Period. The end.

Now can we PLEASE get back to talking about the AirTran T.A.?

Moderator hat on:

Bull!
I've seen you guys go off on members, even as far as another moderator calling someone an (censored)!
Why wasn't that moderator banned?

He was. After a discussion amongst the mods, he removed himself from the forums for several weeks.

If you guys want to discuss Southwest issues further, take it BACK to the Southwest/AirTran SLI thread. If SOUTHWEST pilots want to ask ME personal questions, do it in a SOUTHWEST/AAI thread or via PM.

There's a LOT that's about to go down at AirTran that's going to require us to have some open discussion, it very well might get our internal message board shut down, and I'll have to get pretty aggressive about keeping threads here on track.

So if you don't want your post deleted for being off-topic, keep it in a thread that is ON that topic and, as long as it doesn't violate the ToS (personal attacks, threats, profanity, etc), they can be discussed openly in that topic. Similar approach to the way we've been managing AWA/USAirways threads.

Thanks,

/mod

 

[Cometman]

Yes, and yes. If you want details, PM me or ask me in a Southwest thread. I'm not going to allow this thread to be hijacked further.

As far as discussing "fair and equitable", I've said it once and I'll say it again: Our MEC has asked us NOT to discuss that on a message board, and I won't. You can keep asking or making sarcastic remarks about it, but I'm not going to get into it with you or anyone else. Period. The end.

Now can we PLEASE get back to talking about the AirTran T.A.?

Moderator hat on:


He was. After a discussion amongst the mods, he removed himself from the forums for several weeks.

If you guys want to discuss Southwest issues further, take it BACK to the Southwest/AirTran SLI thread. If SOUTHWEST pilots want to ask ME personal questions, do it in a SOUTHWEST/AAI thread or via PM.

There's a LOT that's about to go down at AirTran that's going to require us to have some open discussion, it very well might get our internal message board shut down, and I'll have to get pretty aggressive about keeping threads here on track.

So if you don't want your post deleted for being off-topic, keep it in a thread that is ON that topic and, as long as it doesn't violate the ToS (personal attacks, threats, profanity, etc), they can be discussed openly in that topic. Similar approach to the way we've been managing AWA/USAirways threads.

Thanks,

/mod

I tried to PM you but you need to empty your box.It would not allow a PM.

 

[Lear70]

Just did, sorry, I get a lot of PM's. Should be good now.

 

[livintheredream]

Regardless of the numbers that come out on Thursday, these radical's will still vote NO ( the are a minority).The will never be happy because it is not fun to them. I have lost a lot of respect in some Airtran guys in the last few weeks seeing how they would rather pay Big Bob's his bonus out of there pocket than take a raise for themselves. " Oh but what if the deal doesnt go thru?" Good God man, its done! Get over it! These radical idiots are a laughing stock on the line about how they are on the other boards ALL DAY already voting NO because we might go to war with IRAN. I was one of the 169 that got furloughed and have been living 3 years of hell on RSV with crap pay at this place and if I can get some Money/Bonus before the little "a" dies and make the big bucks at SW then that is what I plan on doing. The vote will show how smart or stupid this pilot group is.

 

[Lear70]

The two biggest heartburns I have are that our hostages aren't reinstated (one is pending, but nothing is in writing yet), and that the senior Captains don't even get Cost of Living (the CA rates in the T.A. are actually LESS than what was in T.A. 2 three years ago), and the junior Captains end up taking a 12-15% pay CUT on D.O.S.

Not sure what being militant has to do with not liking those two things.

Like I said, it was structured VERY carefully by senior management to get the vote, and it will probably pass, because everyone's eyes are on the Southwest deal. Just calling it like it is.

 

[ATLplt]

Just be smart and read the entire document. I think that's what most of us will do. The devil's always in the details. That being said, one would be VERY careless voting "yes" on a TA simply because a future merger may happen. All possible contingencies SHOULD be considered. Vote your conscience and disregard the 5% of nut jobs on both ends of the spectrum. My $.02

Lear is right though. Even though I'm an FO and will likely see a 20% raise, (should have been more like 40%), I feel that BOTH hostages should have been included in this deal and senior Capt's are getting a serious sh!t sandwich to swallow. The whole thing stinks like a hooker's...nevermind. You get the picture. :erm:

 

[T3700]

(the CA rates in the T.A. are actually LESS than what was in T.A. 2 three years ago)

.

Those senior Capt rates from TA 2 were paid for out of the pockets of the F/Os. Remember that "market" based pay rate for a first year F/O?

The negotiating committee should never accept anything lower than COLA for Capt pay and set F/O pay at 67% of that.

 

[dicko]

Regardless of the numbers that come out on Thursday, these radical's will still vote NO ( the are a minority).The will never be happy because it is not fun to them. I have lost a lot of respect in some Airtran guys in the last few weeks seeing how they would rather pay Big Bob's his bonus out of there pocket than take a raise for themselves. " Oh but what if the deal doesnt go thru?" Good God man, its done! Get over it! These radical idiots are a laughing stock on the line about how they are on the other boards ALL DAY already voting NO because we might go to war with IRAN. I was one of the 169 that got furloughed and have been living 3 years of hell on RSV with crap pay at this place and if I can get some Money/Bonus before the little "a" dies and make the big bucks at SW then that is what I plan on doing. The vote will show how smart or stupid this pilot group is.

I did enjoy the so called "radical" who believed the global Xanax shortage would cause the merger to fail

Remember that these pay rates were crafted by the same people that threatened to fire instead of furlough you.

When you see the rates please calculate the following:

75 hours (new short call guarantee) multiplied by your new pay rate. Compare this to your average monthly credit over the last year multiplied by your old pay rate. You will be very lucky to see any raise.

I agree with you on the RSV issue. I live there.

 

[livintheredream]

I did enjoy the so called "radical" who believed the global Xanax shortage would cause the merger to fail

Remember that these pay rates were crafted by the same people that threatened to fire instead of furlough you.

When you see the rates please calculate the following:

75 hours (new short call guarantee) multiplied by your new pay rate. Compare this to your average monthly credit over the last year multiplied by your old pay rate. You will be very lucky to see any raise.

I agree with you on the RSV issue. I live there.

Glad you got it! I have my calculator but nothing to punch in yet. Thats my point! There are guys that are hell bent on voting No on rumor. I cant grasp that. After thursday OK vote what you want but, to spread so much misinformation does nothing but hurt the group. I got to get out of this hotel.

 

[dicko]

Glad you got it! I have my calculator but nothing to punch in yet. Thats my point! There are guys that are hell bent on voting No on rumor. I cant grasp that. After thursday OK vote what you want but, to spread so much misinformation does nothing but hurt the group. I got to get out of this hotel.

The stuff about the TA is true .... Unfortunately.

I remain deeply concerned about the global Squirrel and Xanax markets. I'm 'shorting' both of these important commodities. I also have ample supplies in my personal bunker.

 

[Lear70]

Glad you got it! I have my calculator but nothing to punch in yet. Thats my point! There are guys that are hell bent on voting No on rumor. I cant grasp that. After thursday OK vote what you want but, to spread so much misinformation does nothing but hurt the group. I got to get out of this hotel.

Some of us are getting hard numbers from the source, and that's where it's coming from.

The 8-11 year CA's do OK, the senior CA's get SOME raise, but the junior CA's fare the worst as Dicko mentioned.

It is what it is, I'm concentrating on the hostages and not allowing myself to get too P.O.'d about the rest of it...

 

[Ty Webb]

I was one of the 169 that got furloughed and have been living 3 years of hell on RSV with crap pay at this place and if I can get some Money/Bonus before the little "a" dies and make the big bucks at SW then that is what I plan on doing. The vote will show how smart or stupid this pilot group is.

The vote may show you how smart you think those of us are . . . . Those of us who have been here the whole time for this contract fight, those of us who have actually served on numerous committees, walked the picket line every time, watched our friends get taken hostage, and voted to give money to our furloughees, well, we may feel a little differently than you, junior, whether you think we're smart or not.

PS, I personally gave over $600. out of my pocket to a fund for furloughees that Christmas. I hope none of it went to you, you sanctimonious p.o.s.

 

[slaquer5]

The vote may show you how smart you think those of us are . . . . Those of us who have been here the whole time for this contract fight, those of us who have actually served on numerous committees, walked the picket line every time, watched our friends get taken hostage, and voted to give money to our furloughees, well, we may feel a little differently than you, junior, whether you think we're smart or not.

PS, I personally gave over $600. out of my pocket to a fund for furloughees that Christmas. I hope none of it went to you, you sanctimonious p.o.s.

Wow, So you work with the union and if someone disagrees with you, this is how you react. Make matters worse Christmas money( you my brother have anger problems)

 

[Ty Webb]

Wow, So you work with the union and if someone disagrees with you, this is how you react. Make matters worse Christmas money( you my brother have anger problems)

You have no idea what we have been through in the last five and a half years . . . .

When someone who has been here for barely half of this struggle to get a contract, and hasn't participated in any meaningful way, starts telling me that if I don't vote for an agreement that gives me a lousy 8% raise and abandons one of our contract hostages, I'm stupid. . . . . uh, yeah, that does make me angry.

 

[Moon-dog]

At the risk of a direct face shot, I have to ask a question. What are the "contract hostages" that are being referenced in this thread? I am just curious.

Moondog

 

[Lear70]

Moderator hat on:

If another member calls out another member by name again, I'm going to PERMANENTLY DELETE you from this board.

Just gave a 30 day suspension to an AirTran pilot for doing the same thing. I'm not kidding here. I know tensions are going to be high for a while, but there is NO excuse to go after each other and it won't be tolerated.

/mod

 

[PanPan]

"you sanctimonious p.o.s."

So how much time in the corner does calling someone a p.o.s. get you?

 

[Lear70]

7 days if it happens again. It wasn't a direct threat, and although the profanity isn't bypassed by inserting creative spelling, it's an acronym and profanity is a ToS violation.

He's been warned against name-calling this morning at the same time I had to remove the other post calling someone out by name. I let it stay only because it had been reported AND quoted and everyone else is saying I moderate and delete too much lately, even though I've taken action against AirTran pilots more than anyone else lately. As a moderator, there will ALWAYS be people who second-guess how you moderate, just part of the job, which sucks.

Everyone needs to take it down a notch.

/mod