Airtran has reached a tentative agreement!!

[sweptback]

Signing bonus, yes.

How much goes to ALPA? I don't know. If it's the standard 2%, it'll likely be about $800,000 which is probably about how much they've spent on us in the last two years. not including our own budget we had going in.

Signing bonuses are duesable. Given that ALPA negotiated it, it's only fair that it is. Would be the same way for SWAPA I bet.

 

[canyonblue]

Signing bonuses are duesable. Given that ALPA negotiated it, it's only fair that it is. Would be the same way for SWAPA I bet.

Not so with SWAPA. We received our Retro Checks last January, and it was put to a membership vote on whether or not we would pay dues on that check or it would be a "dues free" Retro Check. The referendum passed and we enjoyed a dues free Retro Check.

 

[luv2fly]

Moderator hat off:


That *IS* in the final T.A. language. That part was already T.A.'d and wasn't changed.


That's certainly possible, we shall see.


BWAAAHAHAHA!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Yeah, OK,,, THAT will happen. (wipes laughter tears from eyes).

To put it as nicely as I can, and trying to be civil to what amounts to a threat, you will NOT see us back down from anything that's not fair and equitable because of some thinly-veiled threat that NO ONE on here has the ability to carry out. I've known many of our Merger Committee and MEC members personally (outside of aviation) for well over a decade and know they will hold the line. They will be professional, but will NOT just roll over.

I expect your MC and BoD to do the same for you, and it will then, in all likelihood, go to arbitration. I look forward to a long career with you guys, but if you think we're going to back down on "fair and equitable" because "the deal might not go through"... not to be rude, but... you're dreaming.

Barring some 9/11 type of event, this deal is done. Just a matter of time... Not overly concerned about it.

Now, back to the discussion on pay rates.

Yes, Spirit's pay rates topped out at $180 5 years down the road. I'm hearing some not-so-great things about this T.A.'s pay rates for us for the senior guys and gals. F/O's will get some pretty good bumps (pretty close to industry standard but I wouldn't be surprised if Spirit was included in the mix, which they should not have been, seeing as they aren't a Major airline).

However, as starry-eyed as so many pilots here are over the SWA deal, as long as the pay raise has net pay raises and a signing bonus that amount to anything over $10,000, I'd be highly shocked if it didn't pass. It's either that, or live with the OLD scheduling rules, reserve slavery, and crap pay rates from 2000/2004 for the next year to 18 months.

We'll see. I'm headed home today, will get my copy of the current contract and all the sections that have been released to date and start my analysis which I'll start publishing shortly (promised our MEC I'd run it by them this time, give them a few days to respond to their reasoning for things and the accuracy of the data before it goes out), then the rest of it for the compensation sections as I have time next week. I'm over guarantee for the month after finishing IOE so I may not fly the rest of the month and take some time to finish the analysis (and go play on the beach with my son).

Wow, must have hit a nerve.

We will all find out how the chips fall soon enough.

Good Luck and Welcome aboard!

 

[canyonblue]

Don't forget it's only a small 39 mil for SWA to back out of this deal.

Around $6,500 per pilot. Any guess on how many would ante up to get out of this mess?

 

[ATLplt]

Around $6,500 per pilot. Any guess on how many would ante up to get out of this mess?

For Christ's sake...do it already.

I thought this thread was about our turd of a TA. Post your displeasure about the merger on the 700 other threads where you too can look down on and berate your peers.

 

[Midge]

because I apparently made a mistake. Since you seem to be so smart and you are in charge why don't you just move it rather than showing evybody that you are so smart.

The moderators on this site are a joke. They pick and choose which threads they want to moderate.
Becareful when treading on an anti Air tran thread, or they'll put you in the penalty box.

 

[ivauir]

Lear,

You seem to think you know what "fair and equitable" means. You don't. Remember how you felt when this was announced ... well no one at SWA was nearly as happy. In fact some weren't happy at all. Personally I have faith that we WILL get a reasonable agreement and that we'll all end up better off.

"Fair and equitable" isn't defined anywhere and there is no merger that is anything like this acquisition.

Gary Kelly has killed deals before. Hope you guys are smart on this. It would be a real shame for you guys if your senior captains screwed everyone else out of the deal of a life time.

 

[Cometman]

Lear,

You seem to think you know what "fair and equitable" means. You don't. Remember how you felt when this was announced ... well no one at SWA was nearly as happy. In fact some weren't happy at all. Personally I have faith that we WILL get a reasonable agreement and that we'll all end up better off.

"Fair and equitable" isn't defined anywhere and there is no merger that is anything like this acquisition.

Gary Kelly has killed deals before. Hope you guys are smart on this. It would be a real shame for you guys if your senior captains screwed everyone else out of the deal of a life time.

You sound like one level headed Air Tran Pilot that sees this deal for what it really is. Great attitude and hopefully all the other pilots will realize this is a once in a life opportunity. However, your friend Lear probably won't get it.

 

[dicko]

You sound like one level headed Air Tran Pilot that sees this deal for what it really is. Great attitude and hopefully all the other pilots will realize this is a once in a life opportunity. However, your friend Lear probably won't get it.

Get a grip ......He's a Southwest pilot.

 

[Cometman]

Get a grip ......He's a Southwest pilot.

My mistake. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[slaquer5]

Get a grip ......He's a Southwest pilot.

I have heard many of our FAs say that

 

[Clyde Frog]

Lear,
Hope you guys are smart on this. It would be a real shame for you guys if your senior captains screwed everyone else out of the deal of a life time.

You know what else was a "deal of a lifetime"? Getting hired at UAL in 2000.

Times change, nothing is guaranteed.

-back on topic-

The TA is shaping up to be a miserable failure of nearly every stated goal we've been expecting. Standby for details.

 

[scarlet]

Yeah all you guys are just classic. Lets vote it down and get nothing and no release=real smart one of genius ! Lets vote no because I do not need 20.00 hour raise I wanted 24.00 raise. Yeah I admit the bonus sucks, but they really didn't have to settle it at all. Yeah I would have loved to have received AL rates, but the game has changed.

So if its voted down, tell us wise ones...NO really you have all the answers=what do we do then? How long will it take for me to get that 24.00 raise and an extra 4-5k signing bonus. 1-2 years if at all. So I lose 40k while I wait=SMART ALPA is going to take 2%. Its not retro pay=ALPA deserves NOTHING ! 2% of earnings. Bonus is not an earning.

Voting YES, as I figure 40% of FOs need that 20-23.00 hour raise and top 15% of cpts will vote for it. Will pass with over 65% !!

Lets get voting !

 

[swa737-700]

Sorry, but that's not how it works. Our TA has holding company language, which requires SWA to adhere to the terms of our merger protections after the transaction date. The merger agreement between the two companies also requires SWA to comply with our contract until we're combined and under a single agreement. That means that the 18 month limit is controlling, assuming the TA ratifies.



It's not 18 months from the announcement, it's 18 months from the DOCC.

Living in a dream my friend.

 

[bravodude]

Sorry, but that's not how it works. Our TA has holding company language, which requires SWA to adhere to the terms of our merger protections after the transaction date. The merger agreement between the two companies also requires SWA to comply with our contract until we're combined and under a single agreement. That means that the 18 month limit is controlling, assuming the TA ratifies.



It's not 18 months from the announcement, it's 18 months from the DOCC.

I remember a certain someone vowing to quit if they were bought by SWA. ( that would be you ) I'm just curious how that is going.

 

[jonjuan]

I remember a certain someone vowing to quit if they were bought by SWA. ( that would be you ) I'm just curious how that is going.

He meant she would quit alpa.

 

[Lear70]

You sound like one level headed Air Tran Pilot that sees this deal for what it really is. Great attitude and hopefully all the other pilots will realize this is a once in a life opportunity. However, your friend Lear probably won't get it.

You obviously have an opinion; you're entitled to it. I have mine, too. Insinuating that I somehow have a bad attitude about it is highly indicative of where you stand on the issue, seeing as I have only repeatedly said it has to be fair and equitable. What that tells me is that you simply don't LIKE where I stand on the issue, and choose to attack ME rather than the issue itself. Heck, I've been on here DEFENDING your pilots from time to time, but I'm still the one with the bad attitude? mmkay.

Again, I'm not going to get dragged into a fight about it. This thread is about the T.A., and I'm avoiding (as much as I can humanly resist) talking about the SLI on ANY thread on here. Several Southwest pilots on here and I have talked via PM and we've all agreed, nothing is going to be resolved on this board, so we'll just avoid it as much as possible.

The moderators on this site are a joke. They pick and choose which threads they want to moderate.
Becareful when treading on an anti Air tran thread, or they'll put you in the penalty box.

There isn't an anti-AirTran thread.

I'm the only AirTran pilot who moderates this board.

I stay hands off the website unless people can't figure out how to follow the rules. When someone reports a post, I act accordingly. Most of the other threads I don't even read, nor do most of the mods; we rely on the membership to alert us when a thread is offensive. Sometimes we take action, however we ignore FAR more posts than most people realize.

Again, someone else attacking the person (me) rather than attacking the issue they don't like. If you don't like it, email the webmaster. If that doesn't get you anywhere and you STILL don't like it, find another message board that conforms to your version of right and wrong or go start your own.

/mod

Back on track, details on the pay scales are coming out and... well... it's not pretty. Turns out what I told management in negotiations in D.C. back 3 years ago was actually paid attention to: I told them they didn't understand their voting demographic and had structured the raises at the wrong end of the spectrum to get a deal passed. Management figured out their demographic this time and has structured the pay raises to get the vote passed.

F/O's fare the best, with 20-25% raises across the board, some years more than others (3-7), Senior Captains get a larger percentage of the signing bonus and an 8-9% raise, keeping them around the industry average, but the real losers are the junior Captains, who will actually take a pay CUT. How? Easy. We lost Twomey-Kasher and the 8% pay raise is offset by the 10% cut in credit on reserve with the loss of Twomey-Kasher.

Not sure how they're going to spin this one, but years 6 and 7 Captains are going to take it in the shorts from what I've seen so far. At least the reserve rules will help make reserve more palatable along with their pay cut. *disgustedly shaking head*.

Keep staring at the pretty purple and orange kitty, folks. Sad thing is, it will probably pass anyway, despite selling a segment of the seniority list down the river. *sigh*

 

[Midge]

There isn't an anti-AirTran thread.

I'm the only AirTran pilot who moderates this board.

I stay hands off the website unless people can't figure out how to follow the rules. When someone reports a post, I act accordingly. Most of the other threads I don't even read, nor do most of the mods; we rely on the membership to alert us when a thread is offensive. Sometimes we take action, however we ignore FAR more posts than most people realize.

Again, someone else attacking the person (me) rather than attacking the issue they don't like. If you don't like it, email the webmaster. If that doesn't get you anywhere and you STILL don't like it, find another message board that conforms to your version of right and wrong or go start your own.

/mod

Bull!
I've seen you guys go off on members, even as far as another moderator calling someone an (censored)!
Why wasn't that moderator banned?
It seems that when talking points hit close to home, you should remove yourself from the fray as to not affect your ability to moderate.
Either way this forum is a joke compared to what it used to be, and that's one reason I don't really come around here much any more.

 

[luv2fly]

Just a couple quick questions for Lear70. Have you interviewed at SWA before? Do you or have you had an application in at SWA?

Just curious!

 

[vixin]

Of course he will say NO and NO even if he did. He also never applied or wanted to work at SWA. Nor will he answer what is fair and equitable?