AIRTRAN has a TA ?!?!

[Ty Webb]

This negotiating committee had a tremendous opportunity going for them (merger+shareholders' meeting) and still were manipulated into emerging with a concessionary contract!

I think they need to all step down, and make way for some guys with the testicular fortitude and negotiation experience they are so clearly lacking.

AP- we appreciate your efforts, but ever since the Christmas debacle, you have been on the wrong path . . . .it's time to step down and save us the effort of a recall. That is the best thing you can do for your fellow pilots.

TW

 

[MINIME]

Receiving a "not recommended for checkride" evaluation is now counted the same as having failed the checkride. 3 of these, and you can be terminated. 3 failures "on first attempt", and you can be terminated (allowing the company to terminate F/O's who cannot upgrade and is a nasty precedent).


Wow!!! That right there looks like the political equivalent of a weapon of mass destruction!! I'd be very careful with this one. Very quickly and tactfully, any company can get rid of all its (concieved) adversaries with this kind of language.

Pretty sad, cause I hear that Airtran's training is in no way, shape, or form, a relaxed event as it is. Don't quote me on this, just the intel I've heard on it. Maybe Alpa should've brought to the NPA's attention, the system that CAL uses very successfully for it's training. One of the best out there if you ask me.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

This negotiating committee had a tremendous opportunity going for them (merger+shareholders' meeting) and still were manipulated into emerging with a concessionary contract!

I think they need to all step down, and make way for some guys with the testicular fortitude and negotiation experience they are so clearly lacking.

AP- we appreciate your efforts, but ever since the Christmas debacle, you have been on the wrong path . . . .it's time to step down and save us the effort of a recall. That is the best thing you can do for your fellow pilots.

TW

#1) I'm not there, but from an outside observation.

Do you really want new guys in there, or do you want to send the exact people back with a resounding NO, "Sorry, our guys aren't going to buy that, what else do you have?"

You know what you've got right now with those folks. If they feel empowered, I'd imagine their attitude will perk right up.

Again, just an outside observation. Either way. Good Luck, and keep up the good fight.

 

[Phaedrus]

Were it not for the possibility of a merger how many would endorse bringing in a new, national union?

 

[Lear70]

Were it not for the possibility of a merger how many would endorse bringing in a new, national union?

Were it not for the merger? Probably a large number, but I'm here to tell you that ALPA wouldn't help.

I've been on that side of the fence, and PCL has been in negotiations longer than we have and is rumored to be putting the final touches on a T.A. that is probably just as big a turd as ours because of the latest purchase of another airline and shifting of growth to the new airline.

ALPA isn't a magic pill, although their R&I division is second-to-none... even Teamsters companies use them.

The NPA is only as good (or as strong) as the people running it. Ditto with the NC. Replace the NC chair at a MINIMUM, preferably most or all of the Committee itself, and put AP on notice he WILL be recalled if he brings another T.A. like this to the pilot group and go back to the table.

Just my .02 cents.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

The NPA is only as good (or as strong) as the people running it. Ditto with the NC. Replace the NC chair at a MINIMUM, preferably most or all of the Committee itself, and put AP on notice he WILL be recalled if he brings another T.A. like this to the pilot group and go back to the table.

Agree. Skipper got us a crap TA in '01 as well, and we voted it down. After he was removed we got a second TA within a few months. Then he spent next 4 years defending his original TA saying that pilots should have voted it in. This guy is obviously out of touch with the pilot group. I am confused as to why he ended up on NC again this time around.

 

[ATLDRVR]

How does the 4.5 hour average credit work as opposed to the 4 hour min?

 

[gt1900]

I agree with Jonny Sacko... Even though I hate this TA, this is not the time to be changing the guard... We need to vote this thing down by a huge percentage and send the NPA a message... Then, we need to let them know if they bring us a chit TA again that were gonna replace every one of them.. If we replace the NPA right now, we are back at the beginning...This TA, even though its crap, doesn't need to change a ton of stuff to make it decent....
-Give the FO's a little more money (ie year 4 on the TA would be year 1 and go up from there, 3rd year pay would be $71.41/hr)
-Keep the captains pay scale the same except make it a 12 year contract with the current 15 year yages. In other words, year 4 of the new TA becomes year 1 and the $183/hr happens at year 12...1st yr Cpt=$124.39/hr
-Make the B-fund 12.5% and get rid of the 401K matching...
-Door opened to door closed, no questions.
-Keep minimum 4 hr a day pay
-No doctors note if your sick (this one is just stupid if its true)
-No moving reserve days, what your awarded, is what you get..
-Keep 12hr duty days..
-Make sure Scope is black and white... Any a/c with 85 seats and up, or capable of flying with 85 seats and up (ie 190's CRJ 900's etc) flown by AAI pilots.. Anything under 85 seats limited to a percentage of the AAI fleet.

Those are some of the things would go a long way to help ease the minds of the pilot group...

 

[AFcitrus]

They can fly you on a 4 day trip with the following block times and only give you 18 hrs of pay credit (4 days X 4.5 hrs = 18 hrs): 8 hrs, 3 hrs, 2 hrs, 5 hrs

So instead of paying you 8, 4, 4 and 5 hours of credit for a total of 21 hours of credit you only get 18.

They just stole 3 hours of pay.

Bend over and have a nice day,

Love,

KG

 

[maxblast72]

It is time for the junior pilots at Airtran (57% of our pilots have been here 5 years or less according to the Jan 1. seniority list) to speak out. This contract is pretty decent for the top 10% of the list. By 2010, they will be making $225K a year pretty easy (100 hours a month avg credit plus 5K per diem) for flying a 117 seat airplane. The junior pilots (especially the FO's) will basically help Airtran keep average pilot costs down as that is all Joe and Bob are interested in (the pilot CASM). Our payscales when put on a graph appear to be much steeper than the other airlines I have looked at (meaning much more favorable to the senior guys at Airtran). I understand that the senior guys went through alot of crap during the mid 1990's to keep this place going but sooner or later the junior majority will outvote the senior guys.

Since I have recently upgraded, this appears to be the same opinion that many of the FO's that I have flown with have.

Just my 2cents after looking at the new TA briefly.