AIRTRAN has a TA ?!?!

[Lear70]

Scope:

Sub-service operator allowed to operate up to 86 seats, as long as that operator doesn't operate any aircraft with more than 106 seats or aircraft with a Max Ramp Weight of greater than 114,000 pounds.

In other words, the Embraer 100-seat RJ in a business class configuration with 86 seats may be used.

Maximum utilization up to 20% of our total fleet size. Ex. If we have 150 aircraft, the company can contract out up to 30 RJ's, 15 of which can be greater than 79 seats. The rest must be 70-seaters.

No limit on turboprop flying, including the Q-400.

Separate pay scale for sub-100 seat flying done by AAI pilots, haven't seen the scale yet, it's not posted.

I personally think they gave a sub-100 seat pay scale mainly to make people think a 90-seater would be operated by us.

 

[Lear70]

Oh by the way, for the jumpseat war people, the $25 jumpseat charge is gone...

One of the few pluses I've seen so far.

 

[PanPan]

4.5 hour average for the trip and loss of pay at door closed will cost me $373.85 on this trip. Any guesses on my vote.

DY DH C .......FLTNO DPS-ARS DEPL ARRL BLKT GRNT......TBLK TDHD TCRD TPAY TDUTY LAYOVER
WE..................199 ATL-DCA 1423 1608 0145.............0145...........0400 0251 DCA 1500
D-END: 1623L (NR 900) REPT: 0723L Holiday Inn National APT (703)684-7200
TH...................181 DCA-RSW 0757 1024 0227 0231
TH DH...............191 RSW-ATL 1255 1442 0149 0047
TH....................191 ATL-PHF 1529 1657 0128.............0355 0149 0550 0949 PHF 1147
D-END: 1712L (NR 900) REPT: 0459L COMFORT INN (757)249-0200
FR.....................901 PHF-ATL 0539 0717 0138 0202
FR....................695 ATL-SRQ 0919 1042 0123 0040
FR....................842 SRQ-MDW 1122 1256 0234.............0535 0558 0912 MDW 1714
D-END: 1311L (NR 900) REPT: 0625L Hilton Garden Inn (708)496-2700
SA...................829 MDW-MCO 0706 1030 0224 0058
SA...................872 MCO-ATL 1128 1330 0202 0402
SA...................699 ATL-IND 1732 1906 0134 0600......0608 1156 IND 0953
D-END: 1921L (NR 900) REPT: 0514L Ramada Inn (317)244-1221
SU...................117 IND-ATL 0551 0715 0124 0055
SU...................204 ATL-CAK 0810 0952 0142 0032
SU...................205 CAK-ATL 1024 1207 0143 0449......0500 0708
D-END: 1222L T.A.F.B.: 9450 DHD: 0149 TRIP RIG: 0013
...................................................................Total: 2204 0149 0000 2709 4056

 

[DC10]

Don't make your decision on the Powerpoint presentation on the website, wait until you have the FULL document, which is going to tell you a lot of things the Powerpoint presentation didn't...

Thanks Lear 70, but I read about 3 pages into the Powerpoint Presentation of the contract before I made my decision. I definitely don't need to waste my time reading the entire p.o.s. I may print it off to use as toilet paper, but that appears to be it's only practical value to me at this stage.

This TA is a fu##ing insult. I can't believe the BoD approved it. It makes me sick to think of all the union dues I've paid the NPA over the last 3 years of negotiations..... for this??!! HELL NO ! ! ! ! !

 

[PanPan]

Don't make your decision on the Powerpoint presentation on the website, wait until you have the FULL document, which is going to tell you a lot of things the Powerpoint presentation didn't...

I sure hope so. The only thing the Powerpoint shows me is that its a POS.

 

[Citrusflyer]

I thought Wilson Polling showed that we were all fed up with the health insurance. The only change to it (according to the PPS) is that they can only hose us for 10% a year increase vice the usual 15%.

Time for a new round, a new TA, then a new BOD......

 

[Lear70]

Ready Reserve assignment after a flight now allowable.

Downline draft and JA pay remains the same.

Allowed to rejoin trip after a sick call, doesn't say if it's the discretion of the company or not although the wording appears that it IS at the option of Crew Sked. Later mention of being assigned a different trip and only getting paid for what you actually flew, not the better of the two.

No change to guarantee for lineholder = 70 hours. Reserve pilots up to 75 hours. Old pay system on reserve gone.

No change in per diem rates.

Hours restriction on part 91 flying at end of flight removed (means they can assign you a part 91 flight and your only protection is to call fatigue if it takes you over FAR limits).

Minimum of 10% (max 40%) of the reserve lines will be Long-Call (tactical) reserve. 12 hour call-out, but doesn't say under what circumstances you can be called in or changed to regular or ready reserve.

Appears days off after CDO language has changed, but doesn't say how. A pilot who has the first CDO cancel must still fly the last one (no 3-day-off minimum).

Movable Days Off for reserves is on a 90-day trial. Doesn't say who can cancel it or how. 2 blocks of 3-day off periods are hard and are not movable.

Receiving a "not recommended for checkride" evaluation is now counted the same as having failed the checkride. 3 of these, and you can be terminated. 3 failures "on first attempt", and you can be terminated (allowing the company to terminate F/O's who cannot upgrade and is a nasty precedent).

Jan 1, 2008, 401k match 1%. Jan 1, 2009 match 1.5%. Jan 1, 2010 match 2%. 5 year vesting for 401k. Existing B plan unchanged at 10.5%.

Retirees keep medical bennies for 1 year, then must pay COBRA or get their own plan. This part really bites.

Minimum standards for hotels (didn't say what they were).

Increase sick time accrual to 5 hours per month (currently 3). Eliminates emergency sick bank and double accrual.

---------------------------

Overall, I'm not impressed. There's not much we got in return for some fairly large give-backs, and the pay scales still suck.

It's still a NO vote from me, based on Scope changes, scheduling give-backs, and lack of decent pay raises, but those are the highlights.

 

[Dashcaptain]

I feel the BOD has decided to let us vote it down so the company can see that it is not just a few pilots not in favor of this. It will have a greater effect if 70-90% of our pilots say no versus the 6 BODs.

Hopefully the boys negotiating can do better the next visit to the table.

I say no!!!

 

[USARET]

I feel the BOD has decided to let us vote it down so the company can see that it is not just a few pilots not in favor of this. It will have a greater effect if 70-90% of our pilots say no versus the 6 BODs.

Hopefully the boys negotiating can do better the next visit to the table.

I say no!!!

The BOD should have voted this down! This is a POS starting at section 1. I can understand the company rolling out a turd, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain, I am more upset with the union leadership endorsing this crap! If this is the best they can do then it's time for new leadership!












1

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

It will have a greater effect if 70-90% of our pilots say no versus the 6 BODs.

And then those 10-30% who vote "yes" need to be taken outside of gate C17 and beaten!

 

[Ty Webb]

This negotiating committee had a tremendous opportunity going for them (merger+shareholders' meeting) and still were manipulated into emerging with a concessionary contract!

I think they need to all step down, and make way for some guys with the testicular fortitude and negotiation experience they are so clearly lacking.

AP- we appreciate your efforts, but ever since the Christmas debacle, you have been on the wrong path . . . .it's time to step down and save us the effort of a recall. That is the best thing you can do for your fellow pilots.

TW

 

[MINIME]

Receiving a "not recommended for checkride" evaluation is now counted the same as having failed the checkride. 3 of these, and you can be terminated. 3 failures "on first attempt", and you can be terminated (allowing the company to terminate F/O's who cannot upgrade and is a nasty precedent).


Wow!!! That right there looks like the political equivalent of a weapon of mass destruction!! I'd be very careful with this one. Very quickly and tactfully, any company can get rid of all its (concieved) adversaries with this kind of language.

Pretty sad, cause I hear that Airtran's training is in no way, shape, or form, a relaxed event as it is. Don't quote me on this, just the intel I've heard on it. Maybe Alpa should've brought to the NPA's attention, the system that CAL uses very successfully for it's training. One of the best out there if you ask me.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

This negotiating committee had a tremendous opportunity going for them (merger+shareholders' meeting) and still were manipulated into emerging with a concessionary contract!

I think they need to all step down, and make way for some guys with the testicular fortitude and negotiation experience they are so clearly lacking.

AP- we appreciate your efforts, but ever since the Christmas debacle, you have been on the wrong path . . . .it's time to step down and save us the effort of a recall. That is the best thing you can do for your fellow pilots.

TW

#1) I'm not there, but from an outside observation.

Do you really want new guys in there, or do you want to send the exact people back with a resounding NO, "Sorry, our guys aren't going to buy that, what else do you have?"

You know what you've got right now with those folks. If they feel empowered, I'd imagine their attitude will perk right up.

Again, just an outside observation. Either way. Good Luck, and keep up the good fight.

 

[Phaedrus]

Were it not for the possibility of a merger how many would endorse bringing in a new, national union?

 

[Lear70]

Were it not for the possibility of a merger how many would endorse bringing in a new, national union?

Were it not for the merger? Probably a large number, but I'm here to tell you that ALPA wouldn't help.

I've been on that side of the fence, and PCL has been in negotiations longer than we have and is rumored to be putting the final touches on a T.A. that is probably just as big a turd as ours because of the latest purchase of another airline and shifting of growth to the new airline.

ALPA isn't a magic pill, although their R&I division is second-to-none... even Teamsters companies use them.

The NPA is only as good (or as strong) as the people running it. Ditto with the NC. Replace the NC chair at a MINIMUM, preferably most or all of the Committee itself, and put AP on notice he WILL be recalled if he brings another T.A. like this to the pilot group and go back to the table.

Just my .02 cents.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

The NPA is only as good (or as strong) as the people running it. Ditto with the NC. Replace the NC chair at a MINIMUM, preferably most or all of the Committee itself, and put AP on notice he WILL be recalled if he brings another T.A. like this to the pilot group and go back to the table.

Agree. Skipper got us a crap TA in '01 as well, and we voted it down. After he was removed we got a second TA within a few months. Then he spent next 4 years defending his original TA saying that pilots should have voted it in. This guy is obviously out of touch with the pilot group. I am confused as to why he ended up on NC again this time around.

 

[ATLDRVR]

How does the 4.5 hour average credit work as opposed to the 4 hour min?

 

[gt1900]

I agree with Jonny Sacko... Even though I hate this TA, this is not the time to be changing the guard... We need to vote this thing down by a huge percentage and send the NPA a message... Then, we need to let them know if they bring us a chit TA again that were gonna replace every one of them.. If we replace the NPA right now, we are back at the beginning...This TA, even though its crap, doesn't need to change a ton of stuff to make it decent....
-Give the FO's a little more money (ie year 4 on the TA would be year 1 and go up from there, 3rd year pay would be $71.41/hr)
-Keep the captains pay scale the same except make it a 12 year contract with the current 15 year yages. In other words, year 4 of the new TA becomes year 1 and the $183/hr happens at year 12...1st yr Cpt=$124.39/hr
-Make the B-fund 12.5% and get rid of the 401K matching...
-Door opened to door closed, no questions.
-Keep minimum 4 hr a day pay
-No doctors note if your sick (this one is just stupid if its true)
-No moving reserve days, what your awarded, is what you get..
-Keep 12hr duty days..
-Make sure Scope is black and white... Any a/c with 85 seats and up, or capable of flying with 85 seats and up (ie 190's CRJ 900's etc) flown by AAI pilots.. Anything under 85 seats limited to a percentage of the AAI fleet.

Those are some of the things would go a long way to help ease the minds of the pilot group...

 

[AFcitrus]

They can fly you on a 4 day trip with the following block times and only give you 18 hrs of pay credit (4 days X 4.5 hrs = 18 hrs): 8 hrs, 3 hrs, 2 hrs, 5 hrs

So instead of paying you 8, 4, 4 and 5 hours of credit for a total of 21 hours of credit you only get 18.

They just stole 3 hours of pay.

Bend over and have a nice day,

Love,

KG

 

[maxblast72]

It is time for the junior pilots at Airtran (57% of our pilots have been here 5 years or less according to the Jan 1. seniority list) to speak out. This contract is pretty decent for the top 10% of the list. By 2010, they will be making $225K a year pretty easy (100 hours a month avg credit plus 5K per diem) for flying a 117 seat airplane. The junior pilots (especially the FO's) will basically help Airtran keep average pilot costs down as that is all Joe and Bob are interested in (the pilot CASM). Our payscales when put on a graph appear to be much steeper than the other airlines I have looked at (meaning much more favorable to the senior guys at Airtran). I understand that the senior guys went through alot of crap during the mid 1990's to keep this place going but sooner or later the junior majority will outvote the senior guys.

Since I have recently upgraded, this appears to be the same opinion that many of the FO's that I have flown with have.

Just my 2cents after looking at the new TA briefly.