Air Force to UAL New Hire

[pilotyip]

Funny thing is a agree with you that the ratio appears unfair. What I did not agree with is you making it personal and insulting military guys. They didn't hire themselves. Your boss made the decision to recruit and hire them. Many of these guys you disparage are excellent pilots and good people. Don't blame them for getting the job. Blame your boss.

Now this may only apply to the places I have worked, all secondary air carriers. But the military pilots seem to bitch about their lot in life a lot less than their civilian counter parts.

This may be because they volunteered to join the "service". In the "service" there is a corporate culture of serving others, and giving beyond yourself to accomplish your mission. It is not about yourself, it about giving for a greater good. This could also be why airlines like these guys they know how to fly, they are trainable and other pilots don't drop "purple dots" on them.

 

[AirCobra]

I think most civilian guys have more time hand flying a C172 than military guys have total time. So, if hand flying is where it is at I think you need to try again.

"Minimums are only 250 hours, which can be waived to 190 hours if you attended a collegiate or Part 141 flight training program."

Where were you in the two last decades? When I was in college people usually instructed for about 3 years before they got a job flying cancelled checks in a Cessna 210, where after all those years instructing (not flying), they learned how to fly all over again.

 

[AirCobra]

Another excuse to not hire civilians^^

And speaking of fedex air cobra-

Their safety record is pretty awful- and we all know their military hiring preference

They have a 70% military and 30% civilian. Out of those military pilots 62% are Air Force. That means they like to hire guys with heavy jet experience, which is pretty hard to get in the other services. So Fed Ex wants guys with heavy time. I don't think they would care if you got it from the Air Force or Kalitta or Tower, as long as you had it.

Delta and SWA also have a higher ratio of military pilots than many other carriers yet their safety records are pretty good. I actually think that is a dumb argument anyway. You know who crashes planes? pilots do. Every airline crash had pilots at the controls. It is total nonsense to say that military pilots, women, or black people or whatever crash more. They are all pilots. You might as well say pilots make the safest bus drivers because no pilot was driving during a major bus accident.

Here are more stats:

Ship captains run the most ship aground, than pilots.

Train engineers crash more trains than pilots.

Does that mean a pilot would make a better ship captain or train engineer?

 

[sat74]

Lots of very experienced acmi civilians with heavy time still on the street that were snubbed by FedEx.

 

[AirCobra]

I am-


It wouldn't be unfair if the myth that mil pilots are superior were true.
It's only unfair bc civilians have earned much better than they are getting

There is the gist of you mistake. Who said superior? Military pilots received better and more easily quantified training. All it does is serve as a predictor of how they will perform in a structured training environment. We know from the Colgan accident that even airline training leaves something to be desired because of its length, and often times there are business considerations, especially because of things like mergers or expansion.

I found airline training challenging, but it had nowhere near the expectations that were placed on me in military training (and I was already a civilian pilot). Like I keep saying, you haven't been through both so I don't think you can make an accurate comparison.

 

[ROSWELL41]

Pretty soon there won't be many military pilots due to UAVs, downsizing, etc. I wouldn't lose sleep thinking you're at a disadvantage as a civilian. Military pilots are going extinct.

 

[AirCobra]

Lots of very experienced acmi civilians with heavy time still on the street that were snubbed by FedEx.

Um...Fed Ex hires about 1% of the resumes they receive, and they go through frequent periods where they don't hire anybody. Like all airlines they snub A LOT of people. They snubbed me too and I am military.

 

[Mamma]

Lots of very experienced acmi civilians with heavy time still on the street that were snubbed by FedEx.

Probably. Maybe the govt should step in and force FedEx to hire these guys! Didn't your parents teach you life is not fair? Those that bring what the employer wants to the table get hired. C-17 guys for example have very standardized training that is perhaps the best in the world. Uncle Sam spends millions training these pilots. Tons of overseas experience. Heavy experience. Operating under heavy pressure with minimal supervision. And most importantly a fully documented training record that shows their progression, strengths and weaknesses. In addition, many who do the hiring at FedEx are ex-mil and understand exactly what all the paperwork in front of them means. USAF pilots are generally a known quantity and employers like that. Maybe it's the "easy" route to recruit and hire these guys vs rolling the dice with a Kallita guy.

 

[Mamma]

Um...Fed Ex hires about 1% of the resumes they receive, and they go through frequent periods where they don't hire anybody. Like all airlines they snub A LOT of people. They snubbed me too and I am military.

Well, you were Navy!

 

[pilotyip]

Well, you were Navy!

So that is why he is so cool! I don't know but its been said, Air Force wings are made of lead, sound off taker on down 1,2,3,4, Now I don't know but I've been told, Navy wings are made of Gold, sound off taker on down 1,2,3,4, A little joddy we used to sign when marching in AOCS.

 

[Mamma]

So that is why he is so cool!!

But his "carrier" landings will set off the lithium batteries!

 

[Russ]

One aspect of hiring is the background of the guy at the top. Many moons ago America West showed a strong preference for civ pilots over mil, so it cuts both ways. Maybe not currently though...

 

[user912]

That data isn't accurate today yip-
Flat out
I have data from 3 majors- you're wrong

I don't have data but I read an interesting anecdote. Back when American's FEs started to flow back to Eagle, the old TWA guys had a much easier time than the "hired not acquired" SkyNazis. You see, with nothing but military time, that RJ was a real female dog for those fighter jocks.

 

[user912]

Um...Fed Ex hires about 1% of the resumes they receive, and they go through frequent periods where they don't hire anybody. Like all airlines they snub A LOT of people. They snubbed me too and I am military.

From the mouth of a civilian friend FedEx did hire: military pilots (he can only confirm F16 pilots) get a different sim evaluation for one thing. After a few beers and ribs they revealed a lot to him.

 

[SIG600]

Id say you're wrong and trying to make this about me and ego and anything but the clear discrimination against civilian pilots in the hiring process.

Swa put a class through with 26 out of 30 having military backgrounds.

Do you think that's a correct ratio? A fair ratio?

Honest question

Sounds to me like 26 of 30 have been vetted through a rigorous training process,the went on to continued success and SWA values that experience. Gear slinging in a 1900 on daddies credit card, not so much.