Actually Official RAH gets 190's for Midwest

[spiffomatic]

about the best summary of the situation I've seen posted...

worth reading.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Back in 2003, a Chataqua pilot stated on a hotel bus that you guys were "the whoars of the industry." You acknowledge that when you said that Bedford runs an opportunistic airline. Guilt by association, to what level is arguable, but it's obvious that too many in your ranks over the years were more concerned about a fast upgrade to a big airplane, then the overall ramifications. Whatever your union put forth, the membership still has a say and a vote. And if you weren't there before the vote, then you knew you were applying at an airline looking to take advantage at other's expense.

If some other airline started up with 10 bucks an hour maxing out at 20 bucks an hour for FOs and 40 bucks an hour for CAs to fly an Embraer 195 taking your jobs, you would be outraged. I think it's only fair that others see your ridiculous wages for that aircraft as short sighted and a result of one to many starry-eyed guppy killer mentality pilots who just wanted to skip ahead to major airline style flying.

 

[Minimaniac]

Back in 2003, a Chataqua pilot stated on a hotel bus that you guys were "the whoars of the industry." You acknowledge that when you said that Bedford runs an opportunistic airline.

"Whore" (Whoar in case the mods are censoring) does not equal opportunistic. While it is an attention grabbing word, like scab, it has no relevance in this conversation. There are high priced "whoars" and low priced "whoars", but in the end, we are all just selling our services. My post in no way endorses what that CHQ pilot said.

The RAH contract is middle of the road. Some airlines pay more, some less. Everyone, RAH pilots included, agrees that the pay rates as covered by the current contract are not adequate. That is why contracts have amendable dates. The 2003 CHQ contract was designed to last through 2007, and into 2008 for negotiations. In that 4-5 year life cycle, no FO hit the four year cap on pay unless they chose to NOT upgrade. Likewise, in that 4-5 year life cycle, no aircraft was brought onto property or annouced to be coming that had more than 99 seats. The contract covered everyone and every reasonably foreseen aircraft for its entire longevity. We at RAH have outlived our contract, but are bound to work under it until an acceptably improved contract is put forth. We have not accepted any proposals by the company, hence no new CBA. That, in the most basic way, shows that RAH pilots are not settling for less than we deserve.

Once you have been at the airlines long enough, you will begin to see how many factors are stacked up against the pilot group, and how slowly change comes about. Contracts don't change on a whim, and do not cater to the emotions of the pilot group at any point between the signing date and the end of the subsequent section 6 negotiations. Twice in a decade, our voices are heard. You yelling and ranting won't change that. Me yelling and ranting won't change that. Let the process work.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Back in 2003, a Chataqua pilot stated on a hotel bus that you guys were "the whoars of the industry." You acknowledge that when you said that Bedford runs an opportunistic airline. Guilt by association, to what level is arguable, but it's obvious that too many in your ranks over the years were more concerned about a fast upgrade to a big airplane, then the overall ramifications. Whatever your union put forth, the membership still has a say and a vote. And if you weren't there before the vote, then you knew you were applying at an airline looking to take advantage at other's expense.

If some other airline started up with 10 bucks an hour maxing out at 20 bucks an hour for FOs and 40 bucks an hour for CAs to fly an Embraer 195 taking your jobs, you would be outraged. I think it's only fair that others see your ridiculous wages for that aircraft as short sighted and a result of one to many starry-eyed guppy killer mentality pilots who just wanted to skip ahead to major airline style flying.

I think you need a squeek toy to take your anger out on. Let the gentlemen and women sort this out the right way. There are too many hotheaded people like you floating around here that don't know their a$$ from their elbow, but you just keep spewing your bull$hit.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

I think you need a squeek toy to take your anger out on. Let the gentlemen and women sort this out the right way. There are too many hotheaded people like you floating around here that don't know their a$$ from their elbow, but you just keep spewing your bull$hit.

Rational anger sometimes does lead to good things despite your beliefs in the matter. Obama trashes Las Vegas corporate travel a short while back, the mayor voices his anger, and whoa and behold, the president is visiting Las Vegas trying to make things right. Delta announces a merger with Northwest, signs a separate agreement with the Delta pilots first, the Northwest pilots voice anger at the situation, and bingo, a joint contract is agreed upon soon after.

A healthy dose of displeasure to the management team of Republic could at least perhaps move the process along quicker for the better in improving the work conditions and mutually helping out the entire industry.

 

[CX880]

Twice in a decade, our voices are heard. You yelling and ranting won't change that. Me yelling and ranting won't change that. Let the process work.

23 bucks an hour for 99 seat pay. Forget about CA pay, even as a 3rd year FO you'll still be making half of Midwest, flying more people on the 190 then on the 717. Yes it's working just fine. How do you guys like those shinny big planes? Your argument about the survival of Midwest has nothing to do with the issue. What will be the next excuse to replace mainline planes with regional pilots??

 

[CMI]

Why does Air Canada fly EMB 175's and 190's, but Air Canada Jazz does not?
Maybe they are not prostituting themselves like the US Regional Pilots are.
And don’t tell me that a company cannot pay their pilots more. Their would be no airline industry without pilots! Seems to me US regional pilots have a bad case of Coprophagia!

 

[Minimaniac]

23 bucks an hour for 99 seat pay. Forget about CA pay, even as a 3rd year FO you'll still be making half of Midwest, flying more people on the 190 then on the 717. Yes it's working just fine. How do you guys like those shinny big planes? Your argument about the survival of Midwest has nothing to do with the issue. What will be the next excuse to replace mainline planes with regional pilots??

1. No one at RAH has flown a 99 seat airplane for $23/hr.

2. By the time the 190 shows up at RAH, no one will be making $23/hr anymore.

3. Midwest chose to fly the 717 at far less than capacity. Compare the potential load of the 717 with the 190 as operated by RAH for a true comparison.

4. The system is working fine. We are in section 6 negotiations. Our union is now charged with establishing a payscale for 100 or more seats. Our union has declared that they will not accept the current FO pay scale as acceptable for the 190 since that type was not on property when the CBA was signed. Again, the system is working. It is not fast, but it is what the law allows. We are a nation of laws.

5. I don't know if I like those shiny big planes. They have not arrived yet. I have not flown them for a subpar, on par, or above par pay rate yet.

6. In this particular case, my argument about the survival of Midwest has everything to do with the issue. The impending disappearance of Midwest "mainline" aircraft is the sole reason RAH has the opportunity to fly the
190.

7. I never made an excuse for a pilot to replace an airplane. That is impossible.

 

[Minimaniac]

Why does Air Canada fly EMB 175's and 190's, but Air Canada Jazz does not?
Maybe they are not prostituting themselves like the US Regional Pilots are.
And don’t tell me that a company cannot pay their pilots more. Their would be no airline industry without pilots! Seems to me US regional pilots have a bad case of Coprophagia!

Could it be that, through the help of government subsidies, Air Canada has been financially able to purchase E175 and E190 aircraft? The US legacy carriers made a choice to use their available funds and lines of credit to purchase widebody 777's, A330's, A340s; to purchase yet unproven A350's and 787's; and to purchase narrow body 737NG's and various narrow body Airbus products. The US majors chose to purchase aircraft with capacity over 150 passengers. They made a decision to not buy smaller jets. Most of these purchases by the US companies have been deferred because of weak cash positions. If the US government offered to help buy large RJ's for the US legacies, I bet you would see these offensive airplanes on mainline properties. That is, until US Airways needs to raise some cash and sells the fleet off again.

 

[ultrarunner]

Ok, been reading this for a while, and you know what? Had the MidEx pilots not accepted and ratified a contract with NO SCOPE language, we would not even be reading this thread.

In the end, it falls on the MEC and its membership. There is ALWAYS a company out there which can do the same job for less money...and this is a perfect example of what happens when you do not have the leadership with the knowledge-base to adequately protect the group!

Quit blaming RAH and look at your own MEC, and the contract they put in front of you.

I can guarantee you there that everyone on the MidEx list was on-property when that contract was put in front of them!

Next!

 

[CitationLover]

I can guarantee you there that everyone on the MidEx list was on-property when that contract was put in front of them!

Next!

Wrong again.

 

[CitationLover]

4. The system is working fine. We are in section 6 negotiations. Our union is now charged with establishing a payscale for 100 or more seats. Our union has declared that they will not accept the current FO pay scale as acceptable for the 190 since that type was not on property when the CBA was signed. Again, the system is working. It is not fast, but it is what the law allows. We are a nation of laws.

You don't get it. ALL your FO rates suck, not just the imaginary 190 ones.

 

[ultrarunner]

Wrong again.

Ok, so educate me.....you're working on a contract that was ratified when?

I mean you have like what, 10 planes? How many pilots are on the list? What is the most Jr pilot DOH? I don't have time to pull up an old list.

I suspect that the "majority" of the pilots on the MEH list voted in favor of that contract with NO SCOPE LANGUAGE.

There, is that more accurate for you CitationLover?

 

[Anonymous2]

So now the subject of "wh*res" is showing up again. When an RFP is put out, the regionals then put out their bid (proposal) for it right?? Ultimately selling themselves for the business that is being offered. By selling themselves, they all seem to be who*es. And just like real Who*es, the boss with the money will be looking for the cheapest. Hence most, if not all (I think just u.s.) regional airlines. Is this not true?

 

[kf4amu]

1. No one at RAH has flown a 99 seat airplane for $23/hr.

2. By the time the 190 shows up at RAH, no one will be making $23/hr anymore.

Oh thank god, cuz for a minute I thought you guys were going to get paid ********************ty for flying that airplane. Wait, you top out at 37? AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

4. The system is working fine. We are in section 6 negotiations. Our union is now charged with establishing a payscale for 100 or more seats. Our union has declared that they will not accept the current FO pay scale as acceptable for the 190 since that type was not on property when the CBA was signed.

Good luck with that. Unions declare many things but management always wins. You'll end up flying them for 40 bucks an hour.

5. I don't know if I like those shiny big planes. They have not arrived yet. I have not flown them for a subpar, on par, or above par pay rate yet.

I coulda sworn you guys flew E170s and 175s for subpar pay....23-37 dollars an hour F/O is less than Piedmont pays for a 37 seat airplane. And its easy to have 100$/hr Captain rates when nobody at your airline is that senior to earn it. Good luck when your pilot group ages and starts earning "the big bucks", we'll see how fast that "quick upgrade" goes away when RAH isn't the lowest bidder anymore.

6. In this particular case, my argument about the survival of Midwest has everything to do with the issue. The impending disappearance of Midwest "mainline" aircraft is the sole reason RAH has the opportunity to fly the
190.

The existence of whore pilots that don't value themselves or their time, who fly 86 seat airplanes for 23-37,000 a year is the sole reason Midwest pilots were forced into this situation.

 

[CitationLover]

Ok, so educate me.....you're working on a contract that was ratified when?

I mean you have like what, 10 planes? How many pilots are on the list? What is the most Jr pilot DOH? I don't have time to pull up an old list.

I suspect that the "majority" of the pilots on the MEH list voted in favor of that contract with NO SCOPE LANGUAGE.

There, is that more accurate for you CitationLover?

1st off all 400 pilots are still on a "list".....