AA's Priorities

[Zipperhead]

What does that have to do with my last post? While you're at it, why are there 1988 USAir hires on the street?

APA never cared about backgrounds, neither does ALPA or any other union. All I'm saying is that APA does not differentiate between a TWA pilot, an AA pilot, an ex ACA pilot, or whatever - if you have a seniority number at this airline, you will be recalled, period, regardless of where you came from.

Riiiiiggggghhhhhtttttt!!!! Drink the cool-aid....

 

[pkober]

In the concesions of 2003 did APA change the wording for TWA pilots? I don't know because I was already furloughed and living in a tent in the desert.

Did they allow all TWA (who are apparently considered AA pilot) pilots to flowback. It wasn't in the contract I got when we were stapled. If it changed than good on APA. If it didn't then that says alot. There were other things which I can't recall at this time (sounds like something Clinton would say, Ha).

I can't understand how things like that can ever be considered for only a certain group of pilots and not another, all within the same group of pilots. That's not just a slam on APA but on any other pilot union that behaves that way.

 

[pkober]

I know call backs will be in senority order.

 

[aa73]

In the concesions of 2003 did APA change the wording for TWA pilots? I don't know because I was already furloughed and living in a tent in the desert.

I don't know either.

Did they allow all TWA (who are apparently considered AA pilot) pilots to flowback. It wasn't in the contract I got when we were stapled. If it changed than good on APA. If it didn't then that says alot. There were other things which I can't recall at this time (sounds like something Clinton would say, Ha).

Again, I'm not sure, but a lot of my buddies at Eagle always told me their MEC was against allowing ANY TWA pilot to flow back. This sounds more like an ALPA issue than APA. I do know that a bunch of TWA pilots won some kind of settlement that allowed a whole bunch more to flow back.

I can't understand how things like that can ever be considered for only a certain group of pilots and not another, all within the same group of pilots. That's not just a slam on APA but on any other pilot union that behaves that way.

Happens at every pilot union during every past merger/acquisition. The stronger group will always attempt to call the shots. (SWA/Morris, DAL/PanAM, TW/OZ, etc.). This is an unfortunate fact of corporate America, although not necessarily fair.

 

[aa73]

Riiiiiggggghhhhhtttttt!!!! Drink the cool-aid....

OK Zipper, where in my post do I suggest I've been sipping the stuff? I am just stating facts, why not elaborate on where you might disagree with me?

 

[CitationLover]

I know call backs will be in senority order.

so an Eagle CA with a flowthrough number representing higher seniority than a nAAtive flowback will be recalled before them?

 

[Zipperhead]

AA73,,,

You say AA does not differentiate between pilot groups. While that may be true in theory, they screw every pilot group they have acquired, Reno, TWA and so on. Yes, the APA negotiated the merger, however if you don't think AA management had input into this then you are drinkin the cool-aid. Fence all TWA guys in STL/SLT, Don't you think this was done in the interest of saving money and management had a lot to do with this? The TWA FA's can forget about ever coming back. AA management does have a lot of pull in what happens to the TWA group, don't think it's ALL APA's doing.

 

[100 c.i.]

I don't know either.



Again, I'm not sure, but a lot of my buddies at Eagle always told me their MEC was against allowing ANY TWA pilot to flow back. This sounds more like an ALPA issue than APA. I do know that a bunch of TWA pilots won some kind of settlement that allowed a whole bunch more to flow back.



Happens at every pilot union during every past merger/acquisition. The stronger group will always attempt to call the shots. (SWA/Morris, DAL/PanAM, TW/OZ, etc.). This is an unfortunate fact of corporate America, although not necessarily fair.

TWA/Ozark DATE OF HIRE period.

 

[100 c.i.]

What does that have to do with my last post? While you're at it, why are there 1988 USAir hires on the street?

APA never cared about backgrounds, neither does ALPA or any other union. All I'm saying is that APA does not differentiate between a TWA pilot, an AA pilot, an ex ACA pilot, or whatever - if you have a seniority number at this airline, you will be recalled, period, regardless of where you came from.

USair guys were on street long before the merger. No offence USair guys.

 

[aa73]

AA73,,,

You say AA does not differentiate between pilot groups. While that may be true in theory, they screw every pilot group they have acquired, Reno, TWA and so on. Yes, the APA negotiated the merger, however if you don't think AA management had input into this then you are drinkin the cool-aid. Fence all TWA guys in STL/SLT, Don't you think this was done in the interest of saving money and management had a lot to do with this? The TWA FA's can forget about ever coming back. AA management does have a lot of pull in what happens to the TWA group, don't think it's ALL APA's doing.

Zipper,

What I meant was, (for the umpteenth time!) as far as pilot recalls go, APA does not differentiate between pilot groups. I say this because in one of the posts by PKober, it sounded like he was concerned that the recalls wouldn't go according to plan because "the APA doesn't give a sh$$t about TWA pilots."

As far as your point above, I have no doubt that AA mgt had a hand in it.

Finally, regarding screwing every pilot group they take over - I guess you could say that SWA screwed the Transtar/Muse Air pilots in 'the 80s (tacked on to the bottom but then completely dismantled), and the Morris boys in the 90s (tacked on to the bottom PLUS one year probation!) Were they screwed too? How did Reno pilots get screwed? They went from a tiny operation to a major carrier, in a lot of cases making more as AA F/Os than as Reno captains! Do you think they should have gotten DOH?

My point is that if the newly merged airline prospers, the employees are happy. (SWA/Morris) If the newly merged airline lays off, the employees got screwed, which is what happened to us. Our integration was designed to benefit both groups in the event that AA grew. Indeed, most of you would have remained captains at a much better pay rate than at TWA. Unfortunately, the events of 9/11 and beyond took care of that, so you got the royal shaft. And so did a lot of us. And so, it is easy to blame APA and AA when in fact, you would have been singing the AA praises had we prospered. Growth, upgrades, your own fence in STL , NY and LAX, etc, etc.

100c.i. - I am fully aware TWA/OZ got DOH. Do you know why? Simply because the TWA MEC knew that TWA hadn't hired since 1979 - while OZ kept hiring into the 80s - and a DOH integration pretty much put 80% of the OZ boys at the bottom of your list. ALPA merger policy was not followed, and the TWA MEC (the more powerful of the two) called the shots. Then, Carl Icahn furloughed a bunch of them out of seniority, right after the merger. That's why OZ pilots feel they got screwed. Which proves my point - in any merger/acquisition, the more powerful MEC/union calls the shots before binding arbitration settles in. (if there even is any binding arbitration.)