AA's Priorities

[Kugelblitz]

I just saw on the Airwise News thread that AA is starting to renegotiate their contract. APA president Breslin indicated what their priorities were. Not suprisingly, recalling the 2700 pilots that have been out of work for the last 5 years was not one of them. No way the furloughees' economic privations are as significant as those who kept their job during this time. Afterall, one AA FO shamelessly posted how he had to sell his .5MILL dream home. Something he worked hard for and deserved...........

What a lovely bunch you are.

 

[mannyaplus11]

That's okay, out of the 2700, only about 900 will probably come back.

 

[Dangerkitty]

That's okay, out of the 2700, only about 900 will probably come back.

I aint coming back. AA furlough was the best thing that has ever happened to me.

 

[Kugelblitz]

That's okay, out of the 2700, only about 900 will probably come back.

Its' not okay for the 900 who need to get back. Get them back first, then worry about ones' SUV's and what ones' squandron buddies are making at Fedex or wherever.

 

[aa73]

I just saw on the Airwise News thread that AA is starting to renegotiate their contract. APA president Breslin indicated what their priorities were. Not suprisingly, recalling the 2700 pilots that have been out of work for the last 5 years was not one of them. No way the furloughees' economic privations are as significant as those who kept their job during this time. Afterall, one AA FO shamelessly posted how he had to sell his .5MILL dream home. Something he worked hard for and deserved...........

What a lovely bunch you are.

Kugel,

Recalls are a hot item right now at the Co (or rather, the lack of recalls.) You must understand that while all of us want to see recalls start ASAP, most of the Membership is not going to be suckered in to a substandard contract just to get guys back - including yours truly (one number from the bottom!) In fact, I would vote for my very own furlough in exchange for a kick a$$ contract, and most of our furloughees have indicated they want good working conditions to come back to. That is what the union is trying to do.

By going to the company and indicating that recalls are our number one priority, what message do you think that sends the company, from a negotiating standpoint? A little thinking outside the box will provide the answer. Hint - when you want something during negotiations, you don't show your face cards.

So don't take it personally, it is just business negotiations. Realize that AA will HAVE to recall eventually - that is not up for negotiation. So why negotiate for it right now when they HAVE to do it eventually? We will just end up giving up yet another perk our profession has worked so hard to get. in exchange for something the company has to do anyways. Doesn't make sense.

Here's to all our furloughees coming back to the best contract in the industry.

73

p.s. I have no symapthy whatsoever for pilots who overextend themselves with $5M houses, boats, etc. and then complain about it later. Most of us don't.

 

[mannyaplus11]

As it was so brilliantly put by a strong union to the company during the 80's furloughs, "bringing back the furloughees is your (AMR's) problem, not ours (APA)."
That is the same stand the union needs to have now.

 

[Kugelblitz]

As it was so brilliantly put by a strong union to the company during the 80's furloughs, "bringing back the furloughees is your (AMR's) problem, not ours (APA)."
That is the same stand the union needs to have now.

I am not so sure that this statement is the APA bolstering remark you make it out to be. There are different ways to interpret the notion that furloughees are not APA's problem. It doesn't sound very unifying to me (how would you feel as a dues paying furloughee about that sentiment?), plus big, tough talk is easy and cheap for those who have a job and are able to pay bills and eat. For some reason though, everytime I have ever mentioned the furloughee perspective it is always dismissed as invalid as though the furloughed individual is to irrational to see the big picture.

I do hope the longer post above from the AA gentlemen is an accurate reflection of what is truly on the minds of the rank and file AA pilot. American will cement its' public opinion (at least amongst aviation professionals) with the way it handles this recall situation.

For my former colleagues who are waiting to return to AA, I do wish you the best and hope that you don't utlimately end up where so many National and Pan AM pilots did thanks to the loving, self-less Delta pilots.

 

[PHX767]

APA president Breslin indicated what their priorities were.... What a lovely bunch you are.

I am sorta out of touch, but I believe Ralph Hunter is the APA President. Who's Breslin?

The pilots of AA and TWA have taken it up the whazoo in the name of saving the company, while management gets huge bonuses. I would not paint with too broad a brush when you characterize the pilots as whining playboys losing their expensive houses.

And thanks for the nice sign off. We are a disfunctional bunch indeed, but if you are saying something else in a left handed compliment, just come on and say it.

 

[mannyaplus11]

(how would you feel as a dues paying furloughee about that sentiment?),

Furloughees don't pay any dues.
I would like to return to a strong company, not a bastardized contract.

 

[pkober]

Remember Kugal, most of the furloughees are TWA. APA doesn't give a s*&t about them.

 

[aa73]

Remember Kugal, most of the furloughees are TWA. APA doesn't give a s*&t about them.

As much as you'd like to believe that's true, APA doesn't care about a furloughee's background - just the fact that they are furloughed from AA, and will be recalled in seniority order - regardless of your previous airline.

73

 

[CitationLover]

As much as you'd like to believe that's true, APA doesn't care about a furloughee's background - just the fact that they are furloughed from AA, and will be recalled in seniority order - regardless of your previous airline.

73

since seniority is important to you.

so would you support a recall that included the eagle flowthroughs that have numbers higher than some furloughees?

 

[100 c.i.]

As much as you'd like to believe that's true, APA doesn't care about a furloughee's background - just the fact that they are furloughed from AA, and will be recalled in seniority order - regardless of your previous airline.

73

SO when doesn't APA care about backgrounds. Then why are 1988 hires on the street? Completely obvious.....

 

[pkober]

If they care so much about furloughees then why didn't they push that all TWA furloughees could flowback, not just a few TWA pilots? No difference between furloghees, right?

I seem to remember that after the staple we got a letter from APA saying "we are one pilot group now and we need to put the past behind us....."

One group unless you are TWA then you can't get this part of the contract and some others. Sorry. But let's be united. Oh by the way you still have to pay full union dues even though you don't get the whole contract.

Some of that may have changed since I was furloughed in March 2003 with the new contract. But when we were stapled I remember the contract had a letter at the front telling us which part we got and which we didn't. At the time it wasn't that big of a deal until furloughs started.

 

[EA6BDriver]

"Furloughees don't pay any dues."

Kind of hard to pay dues without a job. I guess getting tossed to the curb by the company doesn't count as having sacrificed for "the cause".

The only organization more disfunctional than AA is the APA.

Yeah, just a little bitter. Best of luck to those that are fighting it out in the trenches.

 

[JediNein]

AA priorities:
1. CEO, BOD, then Management paychecks
2. CEO, BOD, then Management retirements and golden parachutes
3. Shareholder profits
4. Stock Value
...
998. The color of the stain on the war room's carpet that is under the conference table
999. Employee wages
1000. The smell of the dog excrement the janitor stepped in on his way to work that evening.

Never confuse the union with a top priority at AMR.

 

[pkober]

"Furloughees don't pay any dues."

Kind of hard to pay dues without a job. I guess getting tossed to the curb by the company doesn't count as having sacrificed for "the cause".

The only organization more disfunctional than AA is the APA.

Yeah, just a little bitter. Best of luck to those that are fighting it out in the trenches.

I hope there not keeping tabs on the furloughees and then charging them for back dues when they return.

I was referring to the fact that TWA pilots pay full dues without getting the full contract, while employed. It should be, you get 80% of the contract so you pay 20% les dues.

 

[AAflyer]

I just saw on the Airwise News thread that AA is starting to renegotiate their contract. APA president Breslin indicated what their priorities were. Not suprisingly, recalling the 2700 pilots that have been out of work for the last 5 years was not one of them. No way the furloughees' economic privations are as significant as those who kept their job during this time. Afterall, one AA FO shamelessly posted how he had to sell his .5MILL dream home. Something he worked hard for and deserved...........

What a lovely bunch you are.

I heard...If I had a dollar for every time I heard that. Why don't you post the article? The APA president is Ralph Hunter, and the Comm Char is Denny Breslin. If the article didn't even get the "players" right, how accurate is the article?


AA

P.S. If this is just another of the many digs at AA, and AA pilots then just say so, I don' have the time to sort through the bull********************.

P.S.S AA is renegotiating it's contract? Did you mean AA opened the pilot's CBA early under sect. 6? Could you atleast make a statement that is accurate. As for the 5 million dollar man (excuse me, FO) Every company has it's one percent. You must be your companies.

 

[aa73]

SO when doesn't APA care about backgrounds. Then why are 1988 hires on the street? Completely obvious.....

What does that have to do with my last post? While you're at it, why are there 1988 USAir hires on the street?

APA never cared about backgrounds, neither does ALPA or any other union. All I'm saying is that APA does not differentiate between a TWA pilot, an AA pilot, an ex ACA pilot, or whatever - if you have a seniority number at this airline, you will be recalled, period, regardless of where you came from.

 

[aa73]

If they care so much about furloughees then why didn't they push that all TWA furloughees could flowback, not just a few TWA pilots? No difference between furloghees, right?

I don't know the specifics on the flow back, and I'm not saying that was right - but it seems to me that your original quote dealt with not getting recalled in seniority order because you were ex TWA. (which some people seem to believe - completely false.) That's what I' m trying to clarify, but just like any other AA post, it turns into an AA-TWA lovefest, regardless of the subject. At least this is predictable stuff!

 

[Zipperhead]

What does that have to do with my last post? While you're at it, why are there 1988 USAir hires on the street?

APA never cared about backgrounds, neither does ALPA or any other union. All I'm saying is that APA does not differentiate between a TWA pilot, an AA pilot, an ex ACA pilot, or whatever - if you have a seniority number at this airline, you will be recalled, period, regardless of where you came from.

Riiiiiggggghhhhhtttttt!!!! Drink the cool-aid....

 

[pkober]

In the concesions of 2003 did APA change the wording for TWA pilots? I don't know because I was already furloughed and living in a tent in the desert.

Did they allow all TWA (who are apparently considered AA pilot) pilots to flowback. It wasn't in the contract I got when we were stapled. If it changed than good on APA. If it didn't then that says alot. There were other things which I can't recall at this time (sounds like something Clinton would say, Ha).

I can't understand how things like that can ever be considered for only a certain group of pilots and not another, all within the same group of pilots. That's not just a slam on APA but on any other pilot union that behaves that way.

 

[pkober]

I know call backs will be in senority order.

 

[aa73]

In the concesions of 2003 did APA change the wording for TWA pilots? I don't know because I was already furloughed and living in a tent in the desert.

I don't know either.

Did they allow all TWA (who are apparently considered AA pilot) pilots to flowback. It wasn't in the contract I got when we were stapled. If it changed than good on APA. If it didn't then that says alot. There were other things which I can't recall at this time (sounds like something Clinton would say, Ha).

Again, I'm not sure, but a lot of my buddies at Eagle always told me their MEC was against allowing ANY TWA pilot to flow back. This sounds more like an ALPA issue than APA. I do know that a bunch of TWA pilots won some kind of settlement that allowed a whole bunch more to flow back.

I can't understand how things like that can ever be considered for only a certain group of pilots and not another, all within the same group of pilots. That's not just a slam on APA but on any other pilot union that behaves that way.

Happens at every pilot union during every past merger/acquisition. The stronger group will always attempt to call the shots. (SWA/Morris, DAL/PanAM, TW/OZ, etc.). This is an unfortunate fact of corporate America, although not necessarily fair.

 

[aa73]

Riiiiiggggghhhhhtttttt!!!! Drink the cool-aid....

OK Zipper, where in my post do I suggest I've been sipping the stuff? I am just stating facts, why not elaborate on where you might disagree with me?

 

[CitationLover]

I know call backs will be in senority order.

so an Eagle CA with a flowthrough number representing higher seniority than a nAAtive flowback will be recalled before them?

 

[Zipperhead]

AA73,,,

You say AA does not differentiate between pilot groups. While that may be true in theory, they screw every pilot group they have acquired, Reno, TWA and so on. Yes, the APA negotiated the merger, however if you don't think AA management had input into this then you are drinkin the cool-aid. Fence all TWA guys in STL/SLT, Don't you think this was done in the interest of saving money and management had a lot to do with this? The TWA FA's can forget about ever coming back. AA management does have a lot of pull in what happens to the TWA group, don't think it's ALL APA's doing.

 

[100 c.i.]

I don't know either.



Again, I'm not sure, but a lot of my buddies at Eagle always told me their MEC was against allowing ANY TWA pilot to flow back. This sounds more like an ALPA issue than APA. I do know that a bunch of TWA pilots won some kind of settlement that allowed a whole bunch more to flow back.



Happens at every pilot union during every past merger/acquisition. The stronger group will always attempt to call the shots. (SWA/Morris, DAL/PanAM, TW/OZ, etc.). This is an unfortunate fact of corporate America, although not necessarily fair.

TWA/Ozark DATE OF HIRE period.

 

[100 c.i.]

What does that have to do with my last post? While you're at it, why are there 1988 USAir hires on the street?

APA never cared about backgrounds, neither does ALPA or any other union. All I'm saying is that APA does not differentiate between a TWA pilot, an AA pilot, an ex ACA pilot, or whatever - if you have a seniority number at this airline, you will be recalled, period, regardless of where you came from.

USair guys were on street long before the merger. No offence USair guys.

 

[aa73]

AA73,,,

You say AA does not differentiate between pilot groups. While that may be true in theory, they screw every pilot group they have acquired, Reno, TWA and so on. Yes, the APA negotiated the merger, however if you don't think AA management had input into this then you are drinkin the cool-aid. Fence all TWA guys in STL/SLT, Don't you think this was done in the interest of saving money and management had a lot to do with this? The TWA FA's can forget about ever coming back. AA management does have a lot of pull in what happens to the TWA group, don't think it's ALL APA's doing.

Zipper,

What I meant was, (for the umpteenth time!) as far as pilot recalls go, APA does not differentiate between pilot groups. I say this because in one of the posts by PKober, it sounded like he was concerned that the recalls wouldn't go according to plan because "the APA doesn't give a sh$$t about TWA pilots."

As far as your point above, I have no doubt that AA mgt had a hand in it.

Finally, regarding screwing every pilot group they take over - I guess you could say that SWA screwed the Transtar/Muse Air pilots in 'the 80s (tacked on to the bottom but then completely dismantled), and the Morris boys in the 90s (tacked on to the bottom PLUS one year probation!) Were they screwed too? How did Reno pilots get screwed? They went from a tiny operation to a major carrier, in a lot of cases making more as AA F/Os than as Reno captains! Do you think they should have gotten DOH?

My point is that if the newly merged airline prospers, the employees are happy. (SWA/Morris) If the newly merged airline lays off, the employees got screwed, which is what happened to us. Our integration was designed to benefit both groups in the event that AA grew. Indeed, most of you would have remained captains at a much better pay rate than at TWA. Unfortunately, the events of 9/11 and beyond took care of that, so you got the royal shaft. And so did a lot of us. And so, it is easy to blame APA and AA when in fact, you would have been singing the AA praises had we prospered. Growth, upgrades, your own fence in STL , NY and LAX, etc, etc.

100c.i. - I am fully aware TWA/OZ got DOH. Do you know why? Simply because the TWA MEC knew that TWA hadn't hired since 1979 - while OZ kept hiring into the 80s - and a DOH integration pretty much put 80% of the OZ boys at the bottom of your list. ALPA merger policy was not followed, and the TWA MEC (the more powerful of the two) called the shots. Then, Carl Icahn furloughed a bunch of them out of seniority, right after the merger. That's why OZ pilots feel they got screwed. Which proves my point - in any merger/acquisition, the more powerful MEC/union calls the shots before binding arbitration settles in. (if there even is any binding arbitration.)