AA's new B scale

[AceOnTheRiver]

Don't shoot the messenger but...

I just commuted on an AA MD80. Both pilots (Both native by the way) showed me a list of Eagle pilots who stand to gain from this arbitrator's ruling. They said the list is rapidly making the rounds.

Captain said "these dumbf-cks won't ever be jumpseating on my plane".

Also said, "If these guys ever come over they're going to wish they stayed at Eagle".

The F/O said, "Those scabs better take there flight bag home with them every night because I'll see to it it won't be there in the morning."

More was said but you get the idea.

I'm not saying this is right just passing on the attitude many of the AA pilots have over this ruling. Figuratively speaking, you guys better bring a bullet proof vest if you do decide to come to the AA side.

How many natives are left now? <joking>

 

[aa73]

As such new AA numbers will be assigned to Eagle pilots and Eagle pilots with AA numbers will be offered new hire classes not recall classes.

So essentially, an Eagle flowthrough is a new hire in a recall class.

Still doesn't make it right. Spin it any way you want, AA pilots furloughed from AA (regardless of background) should be offered first dibs in a recall class. Eagle flowthroughs should get first dibs in a new hire class. There is a difference. Apparently, Nicolau can't see it.

For the record, I don't condone the condescending attitude of those two MD80 pilots. I would never sink to that level, as I know for a fact there are fine folks at Eagle, several of which are good friends, just doing their jobs the way we do. It wasn't their doing, it was the arbitrator's ruling. But that doesn't prevent me from venting my opinions on whether it was necessarily fair or not.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

abcde

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

So essentially, an Eagle flowthrough is a new hire in a recall class.

Still doesn't make it right. Spin it any way you want, AA pilots furloughed from AA (regardless of background) should be offered first dibs in a recall class. Eagle flowthroughs should get first dibs in a new hire class. There is a difference. Apparently, Nicolau can't see it.

For the record, I don't condone the condescending attitude of those two MD80 pilots. I would never sink to that level, as I know for a fact there are fine folks at Eagle, several of which are good friends, just doing their jobs the way we do. It wasn't their doing, it was the arbitrator's ruling. But that doesn't prevent me from venting my opinions on whether it was necessarily fair or not.

Couldn't be said that the LaRocco recall ruling was wrong? Shouldn't any recall of pilots be strictly by seniority? The best way to understand these rulings would be to think of the RJ flow through pilot as an AA pilot the day he received his AA seniority. He basically was fulfilling a seat lock. Most people see no difference between an AE flow through with AA seniority and a TWA furlough with AA seniority. Both never flew at AA and both required AA new hire training.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Anyone up for "Baseball-style Arbitration" to resolve Sec. 6 negotiations?

Anyone?


TC

I'm in !!

PHXFLYR

 

[magrs]

The most important part of this conversation has been LOS. If I can get LOS, I'll retire on furlough and give me golden ticket to whomever wants it!

No amount of cash will take away what LOS can give the furloughees!

 

[BEXFlyer]

Another point is the flowbacks were only temporary. They were never going to stay and permanently take a spot on the list. You knew(know)that. This is a flow to a permanent, to retirement position. Very different.

Oh I see......So the $200,000 I lost due to the flowbacks coming to Eagle is TEMPORARY!!!! Oh I got it now. When WILL I be seeing my money?????

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

Another point is the flowbacks were only temporary. They were never going to stay and permanently take a spot on the list. You knew(know)that. This is a flow to a permanent, to retirement position. Very different.

Good point. The flow throughs seniority is just like any other AA pilot and not like the Super Seniority the flowbacks had under an exception to the contract which put them in positions they couldn't hold.

 

[glasspilot]

I used to work for ACA based in ORD. I remember when eagle signed that horrible 16 year contract. They gave away the farm just to get flow through. At the time I thought it was stupid to base your ENTIRE career solely on whichever regional hired you from your CFI gig. I figured it would be way quicker to get to a major by simply getting your hours at any regional and then, you know, apply like everyone else. Why just sit back for years and years and wait for someone to hand it to you?

Now a decade or so has gone by and lots of the guys getting screwed by that stupid stupid contract weren't even on the property when it was signed. Hell, a lot of 'em weren't even pilots when it was signed.

All I know is Eagle has been through a lot. Much of it was of their own doing by voting in that f'ed up contract. TWA has been through a lot too and none of it was the pilots fault. TWA was once one of the greats. They used to fly Ford Tri-Motors flying the mail routes for crying out loud!

It's a bad situation no matter how you slice it. I hope some one some where comes up with some way to make somebody happy.

 

[macdu]

Oh I see......So the $200,000 I lost due to the flowbacks coming to Eagle is TEMPORARY!!!! Oh I got it now. When WILL I be seeing my money?????

I am still furloughed, do you still have your job and your seat back? Yes, I am sure you do. From your avatar I presume your ex BEX. Date of hire was it?

 

[BEXFlyer]

I am still furloughed, do you still have your job and your seat back? Yes, I am sure you do. From your avatar I presume your ex BEX. Date of hire was it?

'98. The poster make it sound like nobody was harmed on our side due to the flowbacks.....not true. Even so, I treated EVERY flowback professionally, just like ANY other Captain I flew with. But now the table is turned, and many are complaining. We at Eagle are not the bad guys. We are pawns like you. Many seem to forget that. Some of you have a "blacklist" going around....give me a break.

 

[Flightdawg]

I used to work for ACA based in ORD. I remember when eagle signed that horrible 16 year contract. They gave away the farm just to get flow through.

Incorrect assessment. Eagle signed the 16 year contract as a condition to merge the four Eagles and, they thought, to stop the whipsawing. Management wanted jets for Eagle. If you recall, Eagle was among the last of the large regionals to acquire jets.

The APA went on strike over the issue, but relaxed scope to allow Eagle 67 jets as long as their pilots had furlough protection in them. The Eagle pilots agreed to the flow back as long as they could have flow through.

Did you fly at TWA? Where are you now?

 

[100 c.i.]

Don't shoot the messenger but...

I just commuted on an AA MD80. Both pilots (Both native by the way) showed me a list of Eagle pilots who stand to gain from this arbitrator's ruling. They said the list is rapidly making the rounds.

Captain said "these dumbf-cks won't ever be jumpseating on my plane".

Also said, "If these guys ever come over they're going to wish they stayed at Eagle".

The F/O said, "Those scabs better take there flight bag home with them every night because I'll see to it it won't be there in the morning."

More was said but you get the idea.

I'm not saying this is right just passing on the attitude many of the AA pilots have over this ruling. Figuratively speaking, you guys better bring a bullet proof vest if you do decide to come to the AA side.

Bigmotor,
I to just passing info as its comes in. I say make every last one of them show up and I would put money that 80 percent would quit after a year. Dont make it a option, all or none like the contract these scabs are trying to break. Then I move up a couple of numbers and hopefully return with a line. I am hearing the scab lists are hitting cockpits as we speak. More fun at the circus......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Maybe the AMR guys can decertify the APA and start an in-in house union.....

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

Bigmotor,
I to just passing info as its comes in. I say make every last one of them show up and I would put money that 80 percent would quit after a year. Dont make it a option, all or none like the contract these scabs are trying to break. Then I move up a couple of numbers and hopefully return with a line. I am hearing the scab lists are hitting cockpits as we speak. More fun at the circus......

Sounds like a rule 32 to me. Good Luck with that.

 

[XTW]

APA took your 18 years at TWA and stapled you to the bottom of their list, not Eagle ALPA pilots. 18 year TWA pilots got 18 year Captain pay and Captain seats at Eagle. When they went to AA they got 18 year AA pay. The 20 plus year Eagle pilots that chose to acquire AA numbers at the bottom of the list were told they could go over to AA 2 years later at probie pay.

FTR, aa73 is not a former TWA pilot. He is a "native" that happens to look at things rationally.


X

 

[glasspilot]

Incorrect assessment. Eagle signed the 16 year contract as a condition to merge the four Eagles and, they thought, to stop the whipsawing. Management wanted jets for Eagle. If you recall, Eagle was among the last of the large regionals to acquire jets.

The APA went on strike over the issue, but relaxed scope to allow Eagle 67 jets as long as their pilots had furlough protection in them. The Eagle pilots agreed to the flow back as long as they could have flow through.

Did you fly at TWA? Where are you now?

Never flew at TWA. As I recall Eagles contract (the 16 year one) was signed in 1999 or 2000. I could be off but at the time they signed I thought they already had jets on property. I do recall them merging the 4 carriers into one as a result of the contract as well...so I guess they didn't give away the farm for just flow through. I do remember at the time flow back was not even a consideration. Things were moving up for everybody. Post 9/11 is when flow through (100 up) turned into flow back (much more than the original 100).

As I said before. I don't have a dog in the fight. I can see how both the TWA guys and the Eagle guys feel they're getting screwed. I don't know who's more right and worth protecting with a job at the bottom of AA.

Sad situation no matter how you look at it.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

Why would AA pilots get upset when they were the ones to back out of the settlement TA that had the furloughs given one chance to defer before flow throughs went to AA? If they didn't kill the TA they wouldn't be in this mess. How many times will APA shoot itself in the foot and then blame somebody else before they run out of toes???

 

[thor2j]

Never flew at TWA. As I recall Eagles contract (the 16 year one) was signed in 1999 or 2000. I could be off but at the time they signed I thought they already had jets on property. I do recall them merging the 4 carriers into one as a result of the contract as well...so I guess they didn't give away the farm for just flow through. I do remember at the time flow back was not even a consideration. Things were moving up for everybody. Post 9/11 is when flow through (100 up) turned into flow back (much more than the original 100).

.

Your time line is actually way off. Contract was signed in 96 and flow through was signed in early 98(maybe 97). It was voted down the first time around, and then AMR management in typical fashion put one eagle against the other stating whoever agreed to the contract would get the jets and the others would basically diasappear. The flow through was no where in sight at that time. ALso, the contract is amendadable to a degree every our years. Not intended that way, but that contract has made eagle the highest paid 50 seat jet operator, it has guaranteed raises and mgmt doesnt dare open that section.

Eagle isnt so senior because of the contract, it has nothing to do with it.

It is funny ro see AA guys coming tho the rescue of TWA guys who not that long ago they would not of pis$ed on them if they were on fire/


Sad situation no matter how you look at it

 

[Cleared Direct]

So essentially, an Eagle flowthrough is a new hire in a recall class.

Still doesn't make it right. Spin it any way you want, AA pilots furloughed from AA (regardless of background) should be offered first dibs in a recall class.

It is not spin by me, and you know it. It is called an arbitration opinion and award. The reality is that it means nothing without a remedy.