AA's new B scale

[InTransit]

Besides why in the hell would these guys want to come over anyway at best 1 or 3rd year pay to sit reserve probably out of base and get treated like a contract breaking commuter puke? I am already hearing no legs or beers for eagle job robbers. I say make every one of them come over and get a taste of it. Good luck eaglets......

FYI: The truth is many of them don't want to now. From a regional pilot standpoint, they're are at the top of the game - good pay, pretty okay schedules. It's probably best not to say you're gonna teach 'em a lesson. They're good hard-working people, with age and wisdom. They deserve some respect.

 

[Vne]

Since the Eagle pilots who have NOT flowed received their numbers through Sup W/LTR3 and it is now dead and gone they should expect the same when it comes to a number at AA.
Look what Eagle ALPA did to the flowbacks when they took their CA seats because W/ltr3 was dead THEN they "had" a displacement....so "oops you lost your CA seat."

How about a "oops you lost your seniority number." APA can just decide to recycle all vacant numbers just like ALPA did to those FB CA who lost the seat because the agreement was dead. APA has a list redo every year.
How can those who decided the seat provided to FB is gone after the agreement died but somehow the number they got and have NOT used is still valid ?

Talk about pretzel logic.....

 

[pipejockey]

Since the Eagle pilots who have NOT flowed received their numbers through Sup W/LTR3 and it is now dead and gone they should expect the same when it comes to a number at AA.
Look what Eagle ALPA did to the flowbacks when they took their CA seats because W/ltr3 was dead THEN they "had" a displacement....so "oops you lost your CA seat."

How about a "oops you lost your seniority number." APA can just decide to recycle all vacant numbers just like ALPA did to those FB CA who lost the seat because the agreement was dead. APA has a list redo every year.
How can those who decided the seat provided to FB is gone after the agreement died but somehow the number they got and have NOT used is still valid ?

Talk about pretzel logic.....

So then if you want to take the numbers away from the Eagle pilots then the flowbacks should be put out on the street? You say that the flowback CA's lost their seat? They are still there. They merely hold the seat that their seniority allows. And with 10 year upgrade at Eagle, all they can hold is FO. Are you saying an FO seat is beneath them? Why should they be allowed to hold CA's seats ahead of 10 year FO's at Eagle? Sup W is dead as you say. As long as Eagle pilots no longer have the right to flow to AA, why should the flowbacks continue to hold up movement at Eagle. Now if you want to create a new Sup W deal, then maybe something can be worked out. But as long as management has a laugh behind closed doors at all your bickering, things will only get worse.

 

[GIII Instructor]

That's not the point. What I'm getting at is, they were officially AA pilots as of April 10, 2001. They were furloughed from AA, not TWA. They should be recalled to AA before anyone who was never at AA. Eagle pilots with AA seniority numbers were never at AA. Why should they be recalled first? Just because they have a pseudo seniority number?

I agree, it's not up to you nor I to decide. But I think it's fair to say we have two very different opinions on how it should have come out.

73

Sure you make valid points... but at the end of the day, its what Nicolai (the arbitrator) rules. End of story!

 

[Neubyfly]

Sure you make valid points... but at the end of the day, its what Nicolai (the arbitrator) rules. End of story!

This story is far from over. I predict at least 3 more letter 3 grievences

 

[100 c.i.]

This story is far from over. I predict at least 3 more letter 3 grievences

Your right on! The eagle guys are already dancing in the streets over one decision, but guess what 3 plus years will pass and these losers that couldnt get hired even in the late 90s will still be waiting. Stay in the left seat and be happy, because you wont be welcome here!

 

[Cleared Direct]

Eagle pilots with AA seniority numbers were never at AA. Why should they be recalled first? Just because they have a pseudo seniority number?
73

Pseudo Seniority Numbers?

Rrrrrrriiiiiight?

They are called occupational dates of hire at AA just likes yours slick. They are very real and most were already on the list when you got hired at AA. You simply chose to ignore them. Eagle pilots with AA numbers have no recall rights, and they will never be recalled by AA. They will however be offered class dates at AA because of the acquisistion of TWA. Some of the ex TWA pilots who were non AA-trained satisfied the definition in Letter 3 of new hire pilots. As such when they were recalled to AA they not only generated new AA numbers for Eagle pilots, but also AA class dates for those that already had numbers for 2 years or more.

 

[Draginass]

This debacle shows either the idiocy or darker motive of the arbitrator. The twisted convoluted definition of TWA pilots being "new hires" is patently absurd, however, that's how this idiot arbitrator ruled. The obvious intent of letter 3 was not honored. Motive? Who knows.

"B" scale? Sorry eaglets. That's complete BS and a figment of your paranoia.

 

[pipejockey]

Stay in the left seat and be happy, because you wont be welcome here!

But the punks from Mesa, Gojet, Republic, etc etc etc will be? I think you have misidentified the enemy. From what I have heard, it's not the Eagle pilots that are your enemy. You sound like another disgruntled TWA guy that can't just be happy they are on ANYBODY'S list. You all were a whisker away from being just another Pan Am or Eastern pilot. With each thread involving this AA, TWA, Eagle, BS I end up with less and less respect for the so called former TWAers.

 

[sstearns2]

My God! AA starting the "B" Scale a second time? Here we go again. Will it ever end?

You mean a third time. The second time was when the regionals started flying jets.

Scott

 

[aa73]

Pseudo Seniority Numbers?

Rrrrrrriiiiiight?

They are called occupational dates of hire at AA just likes yours slick. They are very real and most were already on the list when you got hired at AA. You simply chose to ignore them. Eagle pilots with AA numbers have no recall rights, and they will never be recalled by AA. They will however be offered class dates at AA because of the acquisistion of TWA. Some of the ex TWA pilots who were non AA-trained satisfied the definition in Letter 3 of new hire pilots. As such when they were recalled to AA they not only generated new AA numbers for Eagle pilots, but also AA class dates for those that already had numbers for 2 years or more.

Sorry, pseudo was probably not an appropriate term for it.

I understand the facts, it's just hard to accept the fact that an ex TWA pilot with 18 years should be considered a new hire. They were AA pilots when they got furloughed, as such they should be recalled before any AE pilot flows. At least that's how I always envisioned it.

 

[100 c.i.]

Sorry, pseudo was probably not an appropriate term for it.

I understand the facts, it's just hard to accept the fact that an ex TWA pilot with 18 years should be considered a new hire. They were AA pilots when they got furloughed, as such they should be recalled before any AE pilot flows. At least that's how I always envisioned it.

Thanks 73, I know for a fact that I was Not a new hire. Not so much as I wore the uniform, my paycheck said AA on it, I did walk arounds on a big shiny jet, but most importantly after about a year I became a unhappy dickhead with a atitude. So in my opinion that clearly proves I am NOT a new hire my eaglet freinds.......

 

[OUjetdrvr]

Way to go Eagle, greed and entitlement know no limits.

Hello pot, this is the kettle!

The regionals are only flying the jets the majors deemed unworthy. Misguided step on their part. As a 10 yr FO I do not want to be where I am at any more than the next guy. Perhaps these groups are finally beginning to see the light in the approach to the scope issue. Simple economics rules the roast. Not pipe dreams or one's own "envisioning". Certain group's scope strategies need to shift as they are certainly not working in present form.

Take for instance the current chapter in the flow-through/backwards debacle debate. A patch on a patch on a patch. Which results in more pilots mis-guided, un-informed anger at other groups. In my opinion, the best solution is a new direction with a collaborated decision where all parties involved have to swallow a little pride/ego to move forward. Both regional and major pilot groups need to come together with this solution. Otherwise management will continue to bend us all over the wood pile.

 

[Cleared Direct]

Sorry, pseudo was probably not an appropriate term for it.

I understand the facts, it's just hard to accept the fact that an ex TWA pilot with 18 years should be considered a new hire. They were AA pilots when they got furloughed, as such they should be recalled before any AE pilot flows. At least that's how I always envisioned it.

APA took your 18 years at TWA and stapled you to the bottom of their list, not Eagle ALPA pilots. 18 year TWA pilots got 18 year Captain pay and Captain seats at Eagle. When they went to AA they got 18 year AA pay. The 20 plus year Eagle pilots that chose to acquire AA numbers at the bottom of the list were told they could go over to AA 2 years later at probie pay. Now almost a decade later some of those Eagle pilots might go over and guys like you have a hard time with it? Rrrrrrriiiiiiiight? How do you think the same Eagle pilot envisioned it?

I am getting a little teary eyed.

***News Flash***Most don't want the stinking job at AA because they know what kind of job it has turned into. Let me guess that is their fault too? Now they have AA pilots that don't want them coming over and less senior Eagle pilots that want to force them over to AA. Feel the love baby.

Again all should understand that Eagle flowthrough pilots will never be recalled to AA. They have no AA furlough rights so no AA recall rights either. They do have AA seniority numbers, and they had them before the TWA purchase. This grievance was filed before the expiration of Letter 3/ Supp W. No you are not a new hire pilot, but for Letter 3 purposes and definition you do trigger the new hire class provision. As such new AA numbers will be assigned to Eagle pilots and Eagle pilots with AA numbers will be offered new hire classes not recall classes.

 

[100 c.i.]

Hello pot, this is the kettle!

The regionals are only flying the jets the majors deemed unworthy. Misguided step on their part. As a 10 yr FO I do not want to be where I am at any more than the next guy. Perhaps these groups are finally beginning to see the light in the approach to the scope issue. Simple economics rules the roast. Not pipe dreams or one's own "envisioning". Certain group's scope strategies need to shift as they are certainly not working in present form.

Take for instance the current chapter in the flow-through/backwards debacle debate. A patch on a patch on a patch. Which results in more pilots mis-guided, un-informed anger at other groups. In my opinion, the best solution is a new direction with a collaborated decision where all parties involved have to swallow a little pride/ego to move forward. Both regional and major pilot groups need to come together with this solution. Otherwise management will continue to bend us all over the wood pile.

"Come together" when I got furlough 6 years ago the regional pilots jumped all over ever route we used to fly with big smiles on there faces. Now the pain is felt in the regional ranks with stagnation and LOW pay still. No one forced you to seat there for 10years and starve. I declined the flowback and moved on, so I can bitch. Not one, but ever regional is to blame by showing up to work ever trip.

 

[Cleared Direct]

"Come together" when I got furlough 6 years ago the regional pilots jumped all over ever route we used to fly with big smiles on there faces. Now the pain is felt in the regional ranks with stagnation and LOW pay still. No one forced you to seat there for 10years and starve. I declined the flowback and moved on, so I can bitch. Not one, but ever regional is to blame by showing up to work ever trip.

Yes it is the entire so-called regional pilots fault. No one forced you to work for AA either. That was your choice. You and pilots that think like you are the exact reason AMR is able to divide and conquer. Professional pilots are all partly to blame for allowing this profession to become crap. We are all too concerned about our own needs today instead of the big long-term picture.

 

[FO 4 Life]

"Come together" when I got furlough 6 years ago the regional pilots jumped all over ever route we used to fly with big smiles on there faces.

So you're saying AE took all the routes you used to fly? Wow, I didn't know they got so many new airplanes. I'm surprised upgrade didn't go down to 1 year like Chatauqua.

 

[BigMotorToter]

Don't shoot the messenger but...

I just commuted on an AA MD80. Both pilots (Both native by the way) showed me a list of Eagle pilots who stand to gain from this arbitrator's ruling. They said the list is rapidly making the rounds.

Captain said "these dumbf-cks won't ever be jumpseating on my plane".

Also said, "If these guys ever come over they're going to wish they stayed at Eagle".

The F/O said, "Those scabs better take there flight bag home with them every night because I'll see to it it won't be there in the morning."

More was said but you get the idea.

I'm not saying this is right just passing on the attitude many of the AA pilots have over this ruling. Figuratively speaking, you guys better bring a bullet proof vest if you do decide to come to the AA side.

 

[chignutsak]

Don't shoot the messenger but...

I just commuted on an AA MD80. Both pilots (Both native by the way) showed me a list of Eagle pilots who stand to gain from this arbitrator's ruling. They said the list is rapidly making the rounds.

Captain said "these dumbf-cks won't ever be jumpseating on my plane".

Also said, "If these guys ever come over they're going to wish they stayed at Eagle".

The F/O said, "Those scabs better take there flight bag home with them every night because I'll see to it it won't be there in the morning."

More was said but you get the idea.

I'm not saying this is right just passing on the attitude many of the AA pilots have over this ruling. Figuratively speaking, you guys better bring a bullet proof vest if you do decide to come to the AA side.

Troll.

 

[AvroGuy]

"Come together" when I got furlough 6 years ago the regional pilots jumped all over ever route we used to fly with big smiles on there faces. Now the pain is felt in the regional ranks with stagnation and LOW pay still. No one forced you to seat there for 10years and starve. I declined the flowback and moved on, so I can bitch. Not one, but ever regional is to blame by showing up to work ever trip.

As an FO on the CRJ, I have a lot to say on the segments we fly....wait a sec, I don't....that would be marketing aka mgmt. I will admit I am looking forward to flying to some new places and seeing them. I do wonder this as the AA pilots gripe over us taking over segments, have they looked in the back of thier jet. Is it full or just a few people on it. If economics will not support a MD80, which is the smallest plane at AA right? Why should it keep doing the leg. Why not give it to Eagle. On the other end, If the CRJ keep leaving a lot of people at the gate, not DRX's, then put an AA plane on it. That also brings up another point. AA and Eagle have nothing between the 80 and the crj, now how smart is that or is that also going to be blamed on eagle.

On another point, I understand AA pilot trying to protect jobs. Wouldn't it be more advantages to go after Connection rather than eagle? Connection being in direct competition now, well at least the parent company. That is like you paying the assasin to come and kill...you.