AAI Pilots Expectations for January 2015

[XGmaninGA]

My bid was fulfilled a year ago, TBA717 CA. I have been in my awarded position for almost a year. At the present time, there is no method for me to transition. I cannot bid transition classes. Something will have to change. Bids are opened, equipment locks released, some new combination all of the above. I fully expect to be sent home at the end of 2014, when they park the remaining 717s. With pay, without pay? Who knows, nobody is saying.

 

[FL250]

For the outside observers who wonder how we got screwed so badly in this deal, just read the above and realize that it's written by one of the guys on our Merger Committee who was supposed to be fighting for us. Kind of explains it all, doesn't it?

Oh Waaaahhhh! At least you have a job. Stop whining and start being thankful you have a job and at a great company, one that is going places. There are so many highly skilled aviators who aren't near so lucky as you. I am so tired of the complaining. Get with it!

 

[humveedriver]

My bid was fulfilled a year ago, TBA717 CA. I have been in my awarded position for almost a year. At the present time, there is no method for me to transition. I cannot bid transition classes. Something will have to change. Bids are opened, equipment locks released, some new combination all of the above. I fully expect to be sent home at the end of 2014, when they park the remaining 717s. With pay, without pay? Who knows, nobody is saying.

Good post.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Given that there will be some 1100 plus left to transition in calendar year 2014, it does seem unlikely that they will complete everyone by 1-1-15 with current process in place. It is possible that the company decides to issue IDs to those remaining in the late fall with class dates tbd thereby "completing" the transition on schedule. But really, who knows. I'm sure they will let us all know when they figure it out.

 

[scoreboardII]

The input certainly is a lot better and I appreciate that although the vitriol still exists from both sides and doesn't seem to be doing much to help arrive at answers.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself very well and PCL, duly noted. I just assumed since you had so much to say about the list prior to the vote you would now as well. Sorry.

I'm trying to specifically figure out the mechanics of how things are going to work in 2015. Or, at least the mechanics of how y'all envision seniority will work (immediately) in 2015. It seems cut-n-dry but there are an awful lot of training events that will have to take place for it to work and I don't see our training center pulling it off.

Has anyone run the numbers on the AAI side and questioned the ability for the deal to go down as signed? Trying to get info from swapa is like trying to pull teeth. They just keep saying the company says it will work.

Thanks for the responses. Regarding the pay reduction in line flying what's to keep you from transitioning now?

My take away from talks is at some point they pull the plug and cease all AT operations. Is that at 10 planes, 20, who knows.

April SWA starts the international runs. I don't think it will take more than six months to prove it isn't anything anyone else hasn't done, and therefore, ramp up will increase to swap all international to SWA side by Dec 2014.

 

[scoreboardII]

My bid was fulfilled a year ago, TBA717 CA. I have been in my awarded position for almost a year. At the present time, there is no method for me to transition. I cannot bid transition classes. Something will have to change. Bids are opened, equipment locks released, some new combination all of the above. I fully expect to be sent home at the end of 2014, when they park the remaining 717s. With pay, without pay? Who knows, nobody is saying.

It will be with full pay if they park the jets.

 

[climbhappy]

Oh Waaaahhhh! At least you have a job. Stop whining and start being thankful you have a job and at a great company, one that is going places. There are so many highly skilled aviators who aren't near so lucky as you. I am so tired of the complaining. Get with it!

i know alot of guys who'd like to swing gear for a 150k plus a year
QOL only matters if you're senior cause you can hold it, if you're junior you know you have to eat a few turdpies...

 

[slaquer5]

For the outside observers who wonder how we got screwed so badly in this deal, just read the above and realize that it's written by one of the guys on our Merger Committee who was supposed to be fighting for us. Kind of explains it all, doesn't it?

Funny coming from someone with only a HS diploma . The AT NC. are all very bright guys with alot of experience.


Maybe your time might be better spent taking some night classes @ Atlanta community college .

 

[redflyer65]

AirTran Pilots on September 26, 2010:

- When is the next picketing event?
- Still working under Contract 2001.
- We hate our management
- Fornaro always screwed up our fuel hedging
- Fornaro screwed up AirTran in 2008 and sold or deferred 40 aircraft
- reserves worked 20 days a month
- scheduling would never allow a vertical trade due to low reserves
- SAP 1/2 suck

AirTran Pilots on September 28, 2010:

- We work for the best, fastest growing airline in the world
- We had the most stable job outlook in the airline industry
- We love our management
- I knew AirTran would be the place to be 15 years ago
- We were only 2 contracts away from making SWA pay rates


I have never seen a bigger bunch of flip floppers in my life.

from PCL128..

For the outside observers who wonder how we got screwed so badly in this deal, just read the above and realize that it's written by one of the guys on our Merger Committee who was supposed to be fighting for us. Kind of explains it all, doesn't it?


That's absolutely hilarious PCL. You guys sent the NC out to produce a product. Hopefully with some guidelines going forward. So what you are saying is the MEC had NO idea how negotiations were progressing over several months? Really?

Then when they produce a document (that you presumably guided them towards), then you decide to throw them under the bus as a rogue committee that was completely clueless and vote down their product? Again, REALLY?

Tell me the thought process with this type of thinking? Other than trying hard to run out the clock and run straight to arbitration, because I really think that was the AAI MEC gameplan from day one.

It sounds more like the poster child for complete incompetence than an issue with the NC.

 

[waveflyer]

What red flyer said^^^ absolutely true-

But in 2013, who cares- that's where me and PCL agree- the time for debate has come and gone- now it's about moving forward with what we have-

 

[K-Mart]

Funny coming from someone with only a HS diploma . The AT NC. are all very bright guys with alot of experience.


Maybe your time might be better spent taking some night classes @ Atlanta community college .

Come on the guy has to have a degree. Really?

 

[Citrusflyer]

My take away from talks is at some point they pull the plug and cease all AT operations. Is that at 10 planes, 20, who knows.

April SWA starts the international runs. I don't think it will take more than six months to prove it isn't anything anyone else hasn't done, and therefore, ramp up will increase to swap all international to SWA side by Dec 2014.

So .. GK can go to the BOD and explain that he's parking 20 (+/-) revenue generating airplanes because he wants to appease SWAPA? Good luck there.

Oh, and San Juan (SWA starts in April) maybe an island in the Caribbean, but it is NOT international.

 

[Roomwithaview]

citrusflyer

Don't know that I agree with the parking 20 airplanes scenario. But, it's not about appeasing swapa or appeasing alpa, it's about abiding by the contracts that he twisted both our arms to sign. Remember that?

RWAV

 

[K-Mart]

Don't know that I agree with the parking 20 airplanes scenario. But, it's not about appeasing swapa or appeasing alpa, it's about abiding by the contracts that he twisted both our arms to sign. Remember that?

RWAV

Side Letter will fix it. We ain't grounding revenue generating planes. I would be furious if they did that

 

[Skyboy722]

So .. GK can go to the BOD and explain that he's parking 20 (+/-) revenue generating airplanes because he wants to appease SWAPA? Good luck there.

Oh, and San Juan (SWA starts in April) maybe an island in the Caribbean, but it is NOT international.

I was told that it has more to do with the shrinking fleet effect; where you reach a point where the fleet is so small that it becomes too inefficient and cost prohibitive to continue to operate it. That point is rumored to be around 10-20 aircraft.

I've been through fleet drawdowns before at other companies, and I seem to remember something like this happening. The plug gets pulled on the last dozen or so all at once.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Side Letter will fix it. We ain't grounding revenue generating planes. I would be furious if they did that

A Side Letter will not fix anything unless it has something that SWAPA wants. I for one will not give SWA any room to wiggle on this issue. We have been pressing them from the beginning on their timeline, but they continually assure us that they will meet the deadline. As far as being furious, that is how we felt when GK bought an airline, then dumped 2/3rds of their planes.

 

[shagadelic]

There is nothing in the agreement stating the 717s have to be parked by 2015. They just have to be in SWA colors and the people flying them need to have a Southwest ID and uniform. There is nothing preventing the company from issuing a bunch of ID cards and scratching out AirTran and replacing it with SWA on the side of the plane. There can be no AirTran on Jan 1, 2015...

 

[redflyer65]

There is nothing in the agreement stating the 717s have to be parked by 2015. They just have to be in SWA colors and the people flying them need to have a Southwest ID and uniform. There is nothing preventing the company from issuing a bunch of ID cards and scratching out AirTran and replacing it with SWA on the side of the plane. There can be no AirTran on Jan 1, 2015...

or a 5 dollar sticker on the nose.

 

[j41driver]

Regarding the pay reduction in line flying what's to keep you from transitioning now?

They'd might not be senior enough IN THEIR SEAT at AT to leave now even if the are holding a SWA 737 award.

Example: For a class of 24 SWA 737 FOs, the company determines which seats people will be released from. When they decide that, they put out a bid particular class which could be made up of (for example) 6 ATL 717 CAs, 6 ATL 717 FOs, 3 MCO 717 FOs, 3 MCO 717 CAs, and 6 MCO 737 FOs. If you aren't senior enough IN YOUR SEAT/BASE to hold a class at SWA that month, well you're outta luck. You could be the 7th most senior ATL 717 CA to hold a SWA 737 seat and you aren't going to class (because they only released 6 ATL 717 CAs) even though you might be the 7th guy on the entire AT list and all the people from other seats that are headed to SWA class are junior to you.

IMO, this is a huge reason why AT guys are ticked.

 

[HowardBorden]

A Side Letter will not fix anything unless it has something that SWAPA wants. I for one will not give SWA any room to wiggle on this issue. We have been pressing them from the beginning on their timeline, but they continually assure us that they will meet the deadline. As far as being furious, that is how we felt when GK bought an airline, then dumped 2/3rds of their planes.

I agree, no wiggle room should be given at all. If they can't comply with the timeline we need to extract the maximum amount of negotiating capital for their inability to live up to the commitments that they agreed to. We have section one scope for a reason, we gave plenty of time to incorporate AT into the operation. We waved section one scope to facilitate the process and that waiver ends January 1, 2015. After January 1, I see any AT aircraft still operating as a direct section 1 violation. Whether or not SWAPA agrees with that assessment is yet to be seen.

From Side Letter 10:
"AIRTRAN PILOT INTEGRATION RESULTING FROM SOUTHWEST
ACQUISITION OF AIRTRAN AIRWAYS
This section will be in effect until January 1, 2015, at which time it will become null and void, and the remainder of the Southwest/SWAPA CBA will be in full effect without any modifications delineated
within this section."

From the CBA:
"Flying conducted under the terms of a Codeshare Agreement and/or Marketing Agreement by non-Company pilots shall not be performed on aircraft owned, leased, operated, held on order or held on option by the Company or its Affiliates."