AA/USAir non SLI?

[Dan Roman]

Best idea yet. You are brilliant Dan.


.

Thanks Slaquer!

 

[Turtle21]

Did you understand the context of Kirby's reply? He was asked if the Nicolau would be used after the joint contract. He was correct in answering "NO" because it will be used BEFORE that when the arbitrators put together the APA list and the USAPA (NIC) list.

AOL should press hard for the MOU to be considered a de-facto joint contract. Even though the pay and benefits are deferred until the POR, the east and west are accruing identical pay from a single document. Kirby also said that he would have every right after the POR to begin mixing crews and metal since they would be under the same contract (the MOU which becomes the MTA which USAPA's own literature defines as a contract).

Sorry boys, you flushed your separate ops firewall away with the MOU. Even though you didn't realize it, it was the smartest thing you ignorant klutzes have done in years!

If you are going to tell us the context of Kirby's single word "No" answer then you could at least correctly explain the pleading/leading question that was asked.

 

[General Lee]

Best idea yet. Just keep reshuffling until everyone is happy and likes the outcome. You are brilliant Dan.


Well I have to go feed my unicorns, i will come on later.

I hope Dan was joking here. Reshuffling the deck? Each group agreed to BINDING arbitration, including management. You don't get to reshuffle, sorry. I hope Dan understands that point. If your group agrees to it initially, then you must abide by it. Otherwise, you are a crybaby jackhole.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flybywire44]

If you are going to tell us the context of Kirby's single word "No" answer then you could at least correctly explain the pleading/leading question that was asked.

Bringupthebird, you still need to correctly respond to my last reply before you get off subject with explaining the context of the word no.

 

[Dan Roman]

I hope Dan was joking here. Reshuffling the deck? Each group agreed to BINDING arbitration, including management. You don't get to reshuffle, sorry. I hope Dan understands that point. If your group agrees to it initially, then you must abide by it. Otherwise, you are a crybaby jackhole.


Bye Bye---General Lee

General, when I wrote that I wasn't really thinking that they would throw out the nic. I really don't think they can throw out something that has been ruled on in a court. I was just thinking that they all need to realize that it's not possible for all the parties to agree on anything. So just let an arbitrator come up with a new list, (using the nic) build some fences and move on. My shuffling the deck is more of a way to say they need to put the continual legal civil war behind them.

 

[waveflyer]

Then you use the the wrong language when you say "RE"- shuffle-

There is no "RE-" anything. There's the Nic award as the official list from Usair and how that will be shuffled in with APA's list.

 

[Dan Roman]

Then you use the the wrong language when you say "RE"- shuffle-

There is no "RE-" anything. There's the Nic award as the official list from Usair and how that will be shuffled in with APA's list.

I agree, it sounds different than how I meant it. Poor choice of words.

 

[General Lee]

General, when I wrote that I wasn't really thinking that they would throw out the nic. I really don't think they can throw out something that has been ruled on in a court. I was just thinking that they all need to realize that it's not possible for all the parties to agree on anything. So just let an arbitrator come up with a new list, (using the nic) build some fences and move on. My shuffling the deck is more of a way to say they need to put the continual legal civil war behind them.

Thanks for the clarification. As long as the Westies get what they were awarded prior to a new SLI with the APA, then that would be fair IMO. (As long as the Westies aren't fenced out of the East growth they should have been enjoying right now)


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Turtle21]

The only legal contract acknowledging the Nic and its applicability is in a contract that will cease to exist, as agreed to by all parties to the new MOU, upon the POR approval. The West asked Kirby to agree that the Nic is effective at the POR, which would of course remove any doubt that the Nic would be merged with the APA list. The West pilot asked a long winded question pleading for Kirby to agree that the Nic will become effective immediately upon the POR but Kirby made it clear nothing was further from the truth. "No." His body language said even more. It was ridiculous to even ask him or attempt to get him to add any credibility to such a notion.

 

[General Lee]

The only legal contract acknowledging the Nic and its applicability is in a contract that will cease to exist, as agreed to by all parties to the new MOU, upon the POR approval. The West asked Kirby to agree that the Nic is effective at the POR, which would of course remove any doubt that the Nic would be merged with the APA list. The West pilot asked a long winded question pleading for Kirby to agree that the Nic will become effective immediately upon the POR but Kirby made it clear nothing was further from the truth. "No." His body language said even more. It was ridiculous to even ask him or attempt to get him to add any credibility to such a notion.

No, I think Bird discredited that, saying the "No" remark was for using the NIC after the next SLI. It will likely be used PRIOR to the next SLI. What I find humorous is the East side being willing to do ANOTHER SLI via binding arbitration. The only thing wrong with the first one is that the Easties didn't like the outcome. Too bad, you and management signed on the bottom line, and eventually it will be correctly implemented. A lot of you "third listers" really don't want it to happen, keeping the senior Westies in a cage out in PHX. When it happens though, upgrades etc will vanish for you as Westies come in to CLT and PHL and take up upgrades they deserve. Your arguments are extremely transparent, and almost as bad as the Eastie's themselves. Shame on you. Integrity matters, and a lot of you lack it.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Turtle21]

No, I think Bird discredited that, saying the "No" remark was for using the NIC after the next SLI. ....

There are only two problems... you are relying on Bird... and Bird wasn't accurate... And besides that no one has countered the fact that the only contract that had Nic in it is GONE and replaced at the POR... Oh, and besides that you are a poser.

 

[Bringupthebird]

No, Scott said that at the POR Effective date there would be no east or west pilots. This will occur prior to the SLI negotiations and it (MOU to MTA) triggers what is necessary for implementation of the Nic award. USAPA in it's literature defines the MTA as a contract. If USAPA decides to play the DOH hand, AOL will quickly have a judge impose an injuction which will stall the process indefinitely. This will please the west who will begin to assume their rightfully awarded bid positions with every vacancy bid. APA will happily go on their way filing the cards for a representation election (maybe USAPA will loan them their nifty little coffin for delivering the cards to the NMB). The only ones left out in the cold will be the east pilots who will go into a McKee spoinsored frenzy of "I told you so's" when they discovered they have flushed away the only remaining support to their separate ops firewall.

Kleenex anyone?

 

[Bringupthebird]

The only legal contract acknowledging the Nic and its applicability is in a contract that will cease to exist, as agreed to by all parties to the new MOU, upon the POR approval. The West asked Kirby to agree that the Nic is effective at the POR, which would of course remove any doubt that the Nic would be merged with the APA list. The West pilot asked a long winded question pleading for Kirby to agree that the Nic will become effective immediately upon the POR but Kirby made it clear nothing was further from the truth. "No." His body language said even more. It was ridiculous to even ask him or attempt to get him to add any credibility to such a notion.

That's not what the west Captain asked. Look it up.

Kirby does not decide when and how the Nic will be used. That ship has already sailed.

 

[Crzipilot]

All kinda pointless as your lawyer jumped the gun again. Shoulda reread what the 9th said about coming back for the DFR. Nothing has happened.....has it? Can you bid CLT or I PHX? nope. Think the 9th pretty much said, go through the motions, when the dust settles and everything is done, THEN you can tell if you have a DFR or not. 9th basically stated, we can't work on assumptions or even bargaining positions....

 

[General Lee]

There are only two problems... you are relying on Bird... and Bird wasn't accurate... And besides that no one has countered the fact that the only contract that had Nic in it is GONE and replaced at the POR... Oh, and besides that you are a poser.

You are forgetting the part about the last judge saying "disregarding the NIC award places USAPA on Dangerous Ground." You will lose. Bye!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

All kinda pointless as your lawyer jumped the gun again. Shoulda reread what the 9th said about coming back for the DFR. Nothing has happened.....has it? Can you bid CLT or I PHX? nope. Think the 9th pretty much said, go through the motions, when the dust settles and everything is done, THEN you can tell if you have a DFR or not. 9th basically stated, we can't work on assumptions or even bargaining positions....

Hey, we all know the Easties disregarded a BINDING award. Eventually the West will win, we ALL know it. But, your new other half, the APA, don't want anything to do with your ridiculous fight, so they may push for a resolution prior to any new SLI. (They pretty much stated that in an earlier thread I created). So, you can waste time and wait, or settle with the award and move forward. Regardless, I can't wait to watch, especially third lister reaction.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[sean67]

No, Scott said that at the POR Effective date there would be no east or west pilots. This will occur prior to the SLI negotiations and it (MOU to MTA) triggers what is necessary for implementation of the Nic award. USAPA in it's literature defines the MTA as a contract. If USAPA decides to play the DOH hand, AOL will quickly have a judge impose an injuction which will stall the process indefinitely. This will please the west who will begin to assume their rightfully awarded bid positions with every vacancy bid. APA will happily go on their way filing the cards for a representation election (maybe USAPA will loan them their nifty little coffin for delivering the cards to the NMB). The only ones left out in the cold will be the east pilots who will go into a McKee spoinsored frenzy of "I told you so's" when they discovered they have flushed away the only remaining support to their separate ops firewall.

Kleenex anyone?

It's gonna be a re do. Keep dreaming. Funny how' all the uncomfortable questions now are if PHX will survive. Goes to prove that AW's
demise was just behind US.LAS dead...PHX ... The next PIT.. Dead. I really get sick of the "white knight" crap from the west pilots.I also fly for the reserves and I'm thankful that I have not delt with the bs over the last 7 years..a time better well spent serving my country.. I'm looking forward to being a part of the new American and moving on.

 

[Turtle21]

No, Scott said that at the POR Effective date there would be no east or west pilots. This will occur prior to the SLI negotiations and it (MOU to MTA) triggers what is necessary for implementation of the Nic award. USAPA in it's literature defines the MTA as a contract. If USAPA decides to play the DOH hand, AOL will quickly have a judge impose an injuction which will stall the process indefinitely. This will please the west who will begin to assume their rightfully awarded bid positions with every vacancy bid. APA will happily go on their way filing the cards for a representation election (maybe USAPA will loan them their nifty little coffin for delivering the cards to the NMB). The only ones left out in the cold will be the east pilots who will go into a McKee spoinsored frenzy of "I told you so's" when they discovered they have flushed away the only remaining support to their separate ops firewall.

Kleenex anyone?

I'm starting to think you are a poser too. Kirby didn't say any of that.

 

[waveflyer]

Can we get a cut and paste link to these Scott Kirby quotes?

 

[General Lee]

It's gonna be a re do. Keep dreaming. Funny how' all the uncomfortable questions now are if PHX will survive. Goes to prove that AW's
demise was just behind US.LAS dead...PHX ... The next PIT.. Dead. I really get sick of the "white knight" crap from the west pilots.I also fly for the reserves and I'm thankful that I have not delt with the bs over the last 7 years..a time better well spent serving my country.. I'm looking forward to being a part of the new American and moving on.

A re-do? Can you do that on a divorce settlement also? How about at Judge Judy? Can you take your money back if you lose it all at poker at a casino? You Easties just don't seem to understand, and it will cost you.


Bye Bye---General Lee