AA/USAir non SLI?

[General Lee]

No worries, I may not exactly have been a big fan of USAPA on here, but I would hate to see the USAir guys get a bad deal out of this. I always err on tho optimistic side, but I think ultimately this will be a good deal for all. It's gonna take awhile though. Hopefully everyone can just reshuffle the deck, forget about the past and just live with binding arbitration. You've all been through enough.

No need to reshuffle on the US side Dan, they already have an arbitrated award.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Metrojet]

No need to reshuffle on the US side Dan, they already have an arbitrated award.

Bye Bye---General Lee

Hi GL

Thanks for the laughs with that reply - after 17,119 posts on FI - I am glad you still have a sense of humor!

Metrojet

 

[Draginass]

There's no way that the APA can cut a SLI using some list that USAPA produces. APA would be crazy to do so since it would open them up to be sued successfully. Therefor, there will be a Kabuki Dance of negotiations that will fail, and the whole thing will go to arbitration.

The APA has a list. Which list do you think that the arbitrators will use on the US Airways side?

 

[doh]

No worries, I may not exactly have been a big fan of USAPA on here, but I would hate to see the USAir guys get a bad deal out of this. I always err on tho optimistic side, but I think ultimately this will be a good deal for all. It's gonna take awhile though. Hopefully everyone can just reshuffle the deck, forget about the past and just live with binding arbitration. You've all been through enough.

Just live with binding arbitration. So you do get it?

 

[General Lee]

There's no way that the APA can cut a SLI using some list that USAPA produces. APA would be crazy to do so since it would open them up to be sued successfully. Therefor, there will be a Kabuki Dance of negotiations that will fail, and the whole thing will go to arbitration.

The APA has a list. Which list do you think that the arbitrators will use on the US Airways side?

Some Easties, like Metrojet, may never figure that out until the NIC is implemented, and it will come as a shock. It's called being clueless. His laughing will probably turn to sobbing.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[atpcliff]

AA cannot do anything. USAir is running the show, and the AA managers are done.

 

[OHGOON]

AA cannot do anything. USAir is running the show, and the AA managers are done.

and your point here regarding SLI is???

 

[MD80PILOT]

There is NO WAY any judge or arbitrator will NOT consider the NIC award when
looking to the AA/LCC SLI intergration. And my humble bet is that is where it's heading to an Arbitrator.

 

[eaglesview]

There is NO WAY any judge or arbitrator will NOT consider the NIC award when
looking to the AA/LCC SLI intergration. And my humble bet is that is where it's heading to an Arbitrator.

You must be brand new to aviation or you would know better than to use words like, never, can't, or NO WAY.

 

[OHGOON]

You must be brand new to aviation or you would know better than to use words like, never, can't, or NO WAY.

True dat!

but his overall point is still well taken...hard to see it now coming out any other way than he predicts but knowing aviation...

Never underestimate the ability of corruption and greed to get the upper hand.

 

[sniper]

USAPA and its creation will be remembered in the Aviation history books the most detrimental mistake done by an Airline pilot group.

It will
Be a case study in the Universities.

Their pilot group had no raise for 7 years and majority of them will hit 65 without a raise.

7 years with 40000 pay less per year for each captain is 280,000 plus interest plus 401k etc...
Each if those pilots lost at least 400,000 dollars


Simple put

 

[General Lee]

There is NO WAY any judge or arbitrator will NOT consider the NIC award when
looking to the AA/LCC SLI intergration. And my humble bet is that is where it's heading to an Arbitrator.

I think it actually will be a panel of arbitrators, not 1. But, the USAir SLI was agreed upon beforehand, by all sides including the company, and agreed on Nicolau. And, I bet all 3 of the arbitrators know Nic personally. Everyone will also be watching the Easties, and that should be interesting. I can't wait to read the testimony notes.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

USAPA and its creation will be remembered in the Aviation history books the most detrimental mistake done by an Airline pilot group.

It will
Be a case study in the Universities.

Their pilot group had no raise for 7 years and majority of them will hit 65 without a raise.

7 years with 40000 pay less per year for each captain is 280,000 plus interest plus 401k etc...
Each if those pilots lost at least 400,000 dollars


Simple put

It really was a collosal F-Up. What a complete waste of time. The top 500 guys on the East side got the top 500 spots because they flew INTL. They could have not voted for USAPA, still stayed in the top 500, and had a pay raise for the last 5-8 years of their careers. But, they went along with the ride and lost hundreds of thousands of dollars, that could have been used to pump up their retirements, and the market has come back from the 2009 lows. Just think what a few thousand extra dollars per month since the comeback of the DOW could have resulted in now? Oh well......


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Turtle21]

USAPA and its creation will be remembered in the Aviation history books the most detrimental mistake done by an Airline pilot group.

It will
Be a case study in the Universities.

...

In Universities... yeah, I could see that. Universities are famous for peddling half truths as if it were knowledge.

Maybe they could feature John Prater as a guest speaker at their series of lectures on USAPA, but to win his appearance they would have to censor any discussion of the unseemly profits that resulted from each and every flip flop of ALPA's whimsical seniority integration policy, lest even idiots grasp reality and the Universities' case study cease to appear relevant.

 

[Flybywire44]

It really was a collosal F-Up. What a complete waste of time. The top 500 guys on the East side got the top 500 spots because they flew INTL. They could have not voted for USAPA, still stayed in the top 500, and had a pay raise for the last 5-8 years of their careers. But, they went along with the ride and lost hundreds of thousands of dollars, that could have been used to pump up their retirements, and the market has come back from the 2009 lows. Just think what a few thousand extra dollars per month since the comeback of the DOW could have resulted in now? Oh well......


Bye Bye---General Lee

Hi General,

At worst USAPA served the East pilot group well by preserving seniority and growth on the East side for what will be at least 10 years and 3 months. Many of those pilots who would have been most affected will retire without having to endure the Nic award.

The top 500 pilots voted to protect their first officers and junior pilots.

The seniority and movement that would have otherwise been lost more than makes up for the loss of pay. Objectively, the loss of pay may also have positioned US Airways well for a merger.


West, East and APA may have no merger related seniority rights until JCBA and SLI implementation. Why would the arbitrators defy McCaskill Bond and give West pilots a windfall SLI award over APA pilots? APA and USAPA may provide a legitimate union purpose for what lists they provide for arbitration.

~12 percent of the newAmerican pilot group may not be relatively valued over the rest—The is a new JCBA and SLI with a new union purpose.