AA toxic culture

[IBNAV8R]

I'm trying to fathom what kind of fantasy world you guys are living in? What other industry would honor your longevity from another company when your skills, at face value (notwithstanding a few weeks of OJT), have nothing more to offer than those of anyone else with similar certificates?

 

[Mamma]

My opinion, a common pay-rate per type of equipment would work better than a seniority system. For example, a 737 pays $100/hr for an FO and $170 for a Capt. Industry standard. Companies can go as far above this rate with raises or benefits but not below. If you are a 777 captain with United and wanted to go to Delta, you move laterally at the industry rate. If you want to stay at Alaska, get the 737 type rating as an FO and apply to move up otherwise stay an FO. You could also apply to another carrier who is looking for 737 Capt newhires or a different domicile you would like to live in. You may have to pay for your type rating but look at it as a investment in yourself. Just like higher education (MBAs) for business folks. Retirements, growth and other vacancies would keep movement going forward. This would take care of portability; shiny new jet syndrome; new carrier entrants who cannot afford to do business without subsidies from employees. Companies would like this because it would reduce training costs in hard times and also create a known cost with our wages.

 

[HalinTexas]

I'm trying to fathom what kind of fantasy world you guys are living in? What other industry would honor your longevity from another company when your skills, at face value (notwithstanding a few weeks of OJT), have nothing more to offer than those of anyone else with similar certificates?

Have you interviewed for a flying job lately? They don't really care if you can fly, they just want you to play well with others.

 

[HA25]

Like a 30 year Great Lakes 1900 capt could become a FedEx 777 captain because Great Lakes went under? (For example)

Still trying to figure out how this national DOH seniority list would work out in real life. IMHO, its a pipe dream thought up by pilots that have either been unlucky or have made bad career decisions, (which often includes bad luck) and will not happen in my lifetime.

if he held a 777 type rating with 500 hours or something, and was current, I imagine yes...


In reality, the 777 guy would be a 30 year AA or CAL guy... ?

 

[Flyby1206]

Never. Going. To. Happen.

 

[HA25]

Never. Going. To. Happen.

Never. Said. It. Would.

 

[waveflyer]

Never. Going. To. Happen.

Then what's YOUR solution dbag?

You and the multitudes of pilots who think like you are why we have such a lack of career freedom-- and continue to get taken advantage of.

Newsflash- our system worked before deregulation bc you could expect your airline to last your career- now? Can ANY of us truly expect our airline to last 30 years?

 

[HA25]

Newsflash- our system worked before deregulation bc you could expect your airline to last your career- now? Can ANY of us truly expect our airline to last 30 years?

And that's just it... most of these idiots have no idea that this is the case... they see their airline as an empire, going no where.. and expect to retire rich from it... reality is, based on the history since 1977, they'll unlikely do so and there's an evil part of me that wishes they experience the same fate as those who ended their days at Eastern, Pan Am or more recently ATA... just so they can get a taste of the real world... but I'm sure they will.. I'd bank on it as a matter of fact.

 

[chase]

Pilots complaining about a "seniority system" is like a lifeguard complaining that they don't like to get wet.

Please, can we put it to rest and move on to topics that has some point?

Thinking outside the box is fine but one must also deal with reality and understand what the term futile means.

Seniority is good for some, bad for others; how is that different than anything else. Different airlines operate with different business models and to expect to force upon them an employment protocol of having to hire pilots from a national seniority list is nonsense.

The topic of the thread is "AA Toxic Culture" not "why the seniority system is bad".

I have many friends at AA and they are great folks. I understand their frustration.

They as a company (management and employees) are doing something however that is one of the finest things that is occurring in the industry and that is supporting a non-profit, Snowball Express, from Dec 8-13 in Dallas, TX.

Their pilots, flight attendants are working for free; management is working with the volunteers to bring over 1700 widows and children of military fallen heroes to Dallas, TX for 5 days, 4 nights, all expenses paid to be with other children of those military members who have died while serving since 9/11. It is the largest airlift of its kind by any airline...a very noble cause by some great airline employees.

Thanks to all of the AA employees and other vols who are helping out....for those few days they are working toward a common goal and it is a wonderful thing to see firsthand.

Sorry for the diversion from the fantasy of a national seniority list to the reality of an airline and its employees doings something truly remarkable that changes the lives of thousands in a positive way.

 

[Kalifornia]

There's not a chance a national seniority lists will ever work. There are a thousand variables with the most important one being the egos of each pilot hiring division. It's taken forever just to get United and Continental pilots figured out and they are similar carriers. The much better solution is to encourage airlines to have higher pay and work conditions especially for new hires so no one pilot is scraping buy trying to commute to New York. Which also means discouraging pilots for working for bottom of the barrel carriers. The quality of life should be divided better within a carrier like a good corporate pilot job.