AA toxic culture

Mamma

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You sound like a bunch of foolish, control freak pilots trying to control something that is way beyond your grasp. Airliners went from 3 pilot cockpits to 2 pilot cockpits. There will eventually be 1 pilot in the cockpit and then none. Just a "systems analyst" making $10 an hour while some computer flies it from the ground. Your job is being phased out by technology and you fail to recognize it. You can't control the pay. The market will determine the pay. You can't control the market. Get over it.

Obviously, you don't know Ja...well, ya know.
 

Jack Schitt

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1 pilot cockpit is still a long, long ways away for any heavy jet carrying tons of fuel and humans and cargo. All airlines in an emergency can already be flown with a single pilot and have for a long time, but for the same reasons of 2 or more engines, you're not going to see 1 pilot anytime soon. And no pilots, heck, they don't even seem close to having automatic cars on the road, except for a few safety features on luxury models. Taxiing around a congested airport would be problem number 1. The oceanic shipping industry also in their two dimensional world has not come close to zero onboard human intervention. Computers cannot account for catostrophic events such as United Sioux City, Qantas A380 over Singapore, Sulley over NYC. A UAV crashing in the desert is one thing, population centers is another.

Remember when the union demanded the FE sit on the jumpseat in a 737 because it was too dangerous to have less than 3 pilots in the cockpit? Flying a jet across the ocean with less than 3 engines was too dangerous? An all glass cockpit was too dangerous? Using an iPad for approach plates is too dangerous?

The military will perfect the pilotless airplane sooner rather than later. First you'll see 1 pilot in the cockpit with 1 UAV pilot on the ground. The role of the pilot in the cockpit will become more and more diminished along with his salary. Then you'll see a "systems analyst" in the cockpit with a UAV pilot on the ground backing up the computer that's really flying the airplane.

The unions will be crying all the way to Capitol Hill. The good news is, no more overnights and commuting to work. Buy your kids an Xbox for Christmas if you want them to be in this industry. You'll thank me later.
 

Flopgut

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Remember when the union demanded the FE sit on the jumpseat in a 737 because it was too dangerous to have less than 3 pilots in the cockpit? Flying a jet across the ocean with less than 3 engines was too dangerous? An all glass cockpit was too dangerous? Using an iPad for approach plates is too dangerous?

The military will perfect the pilotless airplane sooner rather than later. First you'll see 1 pilot in the cockpit with 1 UAV pilot on the ground. The role of the pilot in the cockpit will become more and more diminished along with his salary. Then you'll see a "systems analyst" in the cockpit with a UAV pilot on the ground backing up the computer that's really flying the airplane.

The unions will be crying all the way to Capitol Hill. The good news is, no more overnights and commuting to work. Buy your kids an Xbox for Christmas if you want them to be in this industry. You'll thank me later.

Won't happen quick enough to stop the pendulum from swinging back the other way. And it never stops in the middle.
 

livin'thesim

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You sound like a bunch of foolish, control freak pilots trying to control something that is way beyond your grasp. Airliners went from 3 pilot cockpits to 2 pilot cockpits. There will eventually be 1 pilot in the cockpit and then none. Just a "systems analyst" making $10 an hour while some computer flies it from the ground. Your job is being phased out by technology and you fail to recognize it. You can't control the pay. The market will determine the pay. You can't control the market. Get over it.

The single-person systems manager cockpit is a distinct possibility.

But to suggest that labor groups cannot influence market dynamics is not a tenable position.

To the extent that supply can be constrained, price can be influenced.

No one is suggesting that labor pricing can be "controlled", though, so you are misreading the discussion.

To what level the effect will be, and whether these ideas are good are not are open to debate.

If you want to posit that market participants cannot affect the market, you are not likely to be taken seriously.
 

Kalifornia

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Remember when the union demanded the FE sit on the jumpseat in a 737 because it was too dangerous to have less than 3 pilots in the cockpit? Flying a jet across the ocean with less than 3 engines was too dangerous? An all glass cockpit was too dangerous? Using an iPad for approach plates is too dangerous?

The military will perfect the pilotless airplane sooner rather than later. First you'll see 1 pilot in the cockpit with 1 UAV pilot on the ground. The role of the pilot in the cockpit will become more and more diminished along with his salary. Then you'll see a "systems analyst" in the cockpit with a UAV pilot on the ground backing up the computer that's really flying the airplane.

The unions will be crying all the way to Capitol Hill. The good news is, no more overnights and commuting to work. Buy your kids an Xbox for Christmas if you want them to be in this industry. You'll thank me later.

There's a massive difference between going from 3 to 2 pilots versus 2 to 1. Same with engines or any other critical component. I'm not saying it won't happen, it's just something that's really not feasible any time soon. If you view your typical futuristic science fiction movies, even they still show pilots as part of the rocket ship operation. The movies with robots or computers in charge are not pleasant plot lines.
 

flythere

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The single-person systems manager cockpit is a distinct possibility.

But to suggest that labor groups cannot influence market dynamics is not a tenable position.

To the extent that supply can be constrained, price can be influenced.

No one is suggesting that labor pricing can be "controlled", though, so you are misreading the discussion.

To what level the effect will be, and whether these ideas are good are not are open to debate.

If you want to posit that market participants cannot affect the market, you are not likely to be taken seriously.


The airplane of the future will have one pilot in the cockpit along with a dog!

The dog will be there to bite the pilot if he touches anything!!
 

tomgoodman

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And in time, we'll be replaced by technology... right about that same time, about 25% of all current "jobs" will also be replaced by technology... brave new world.

Airlines would only be interested in a drone/UAV if it will save them money, and do so quickly. Revolving-door CEOs don't care about long-term payoffs which only benefit their successors. For the time being, pilots are cheaper than robots.
 

laker4284

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And the passengers? Will THEY be comfy without a crew? As a huge percentage of pax are already uncomfortable in an aircraft, in part because of loss of control, will they accept the loss of human interface? I don't think so. There's a huge diff between military ops and civilian ops. A large part of mil uav ops is length of mission, risk within the mission, and how strenuous the mission is, i.e. fighter g-forces. Big diff.
 

livin'thesim

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Like I said, there will be a human at the pointy end of the aircraft. To what extent that person exercises authority, controls the aircraft, or whatever is open to debate.

There will always be someone who will do the job even at low pay.

Flight attendants will still be required, and there will need to be some type of authority figure on board to make final decisions that cannot be made by ground personnel over a data uplink.

Think "security guard".
 

flythere

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And the passengers? Will THEY be comfy without a crew? As a huge percentage of pax are already uncomfortable in an aircraft, in part because of loss of control, will they accept the loss of human interface? I don't think so. There's a huge diff between military ops and civilian ops. A large part of mil uav ops is length of mission, risk within the mission, and how strenuous the mission is, i.e. fighter g-forces. Big diff.

I think we will see feeder drones flying boxes in the the next 10 to 15 yrs! Empire and the other feeders for FedEx/UPS will be first. Caravans or something of that type flying at night from say PDX, out to SLE, BKE etc.

We've had military drones operating within the civilian airspace system for a few years now, around ABQ, EDW, LAS and so on. They are proving the technology works!

As for pax not wanting to fly, I think they will come around, eventually. Hell, look at Ryan Air, they were talking about charging people to use the bathroom on their flights. What about the outfit in China that approached Boeing about making a seat-less cabin, passengers would stand for flights less than 2 hrs or something crazy like that!

Look at these tight-arsess in this county, they'll make 3 connections to save 20 bucks! I think it's coming, can't say when, but it'll be here!!
 
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livin'thesim

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I think we will see feeder drones flying boxes in the the next 10 to 15 yrs! Empire and the other feeders for FedEx/UPS will be first. Caravans or something of that type flying at night from say PDX, out to SLE, BKE etc.

We've had military drones operating within the civilian airspace system for a few years now, around ABQ, EDW, LAS and so on. They are proving the technology works!

As for pax not wanting to fly, I think they will come around, eventually. Hell, look at Ryan Air, they were talking about charging people to use the bathroom on their flights. What about the outfit in China that approached Boeing about making a seat-less cabin, passengers would stand for flights less than 2 hrs or something crazy like that!

Look at these tight-arsess in this county, they'll make 3 connections to save 20 bucks! I think it's coming, can't say when, but it'll be here!!


I'm picturing a talking autopilot like the one in "Knight Rider".

I wonder if they can complete the pilotless avionics package by making it so the two channels of the autopilot spend the entire flight complaining about maintenance, long days, and making prurient remarks about the gate agent's breast size.
 
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