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AA makes offer to the APA----and it's.....well....uhhh

General Lee

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NOVEMBER 11, 2014

American presents contract proposal to pilots

American Airlines has formally presented a contract proposal to its pilots union which is considering whether or not it will send proposal to its members for a vote.

According to a letter sent by American president Scott Kirby to the Allied Pilots Association on Tuesday, the contract proposal would give pilots the highest pay rate among legacy carriers.

"It is my hope that as we build a stronger, more trusting relationship that, together, we will be able to reach the best economic considerations for the 100,000 employees of American and the company in the future," Kirby wrote in the letter obtained by the Star-Telegram.

The proposal does not include the company's initial request to add 5 more seats to the regional jet work scope section of the contract that would allow regional carriers, like Envoy Air and Piedmont Airlines, to fly jets with 81 seats instead of the current scope of 76 seats.

Kirby said that adding those five seats would translate into tens of millions of dollars in new revenue annually to the airline.

"Even though we believe the scope request is in the best interest of all involved, we believe that establishing trust with our employees is even more important," Kirby wrote. "Today's proposal omits a request to add five seats to the 76-seat jets as a sign of good faith to demonstrate the trust we want to build."

APA spokesman Gregg Overman said the union?s board will convene on Wednesday to consider the proposal.

The two sides had previously agreed to a 30-day negotiating extension that lasts through November 15.

If the APA decides by the end of the week to send the proposal to members for a ratification vote, there is another extension for 45 days. And if a contract agreement is reached outside of arbitration, pay rates would become effective on December 1, regardless of the actual effective date of the contract.

Keep reading for the full letter from Kirby.

-Andrea Ahles

To: APA Board of Directors

Today the Company passed a comprehensive joint collective bargaining agreement (JCBA) proposal to APA that does not include the anticipated request for adding five seats to our larger regional jets. We have excluded that request, even though we believe it is in the Company's best interest, in an effort to build much needed trust into our labor-management relations at the new American.

Most of you know that I strongly believe adding five more seats to these larger RJs is in the best interests of American Airlines and our pilots. Allowing our RJ providers to properly configure those jets with 81 seats, rather than being constrained to 76 per the APA contract, would increase the number of passengers flowing onto the mainline. And we know that more passengers flowing to the mainline is good for everyoone at American including our pilots. My own conservative estimate is that adding these five seats would mean tens of millions of dollars in additional revenue annually to American. Equally important to the additional revenue, though, is that those five seats greatly enhance our network feed to grow the mainline - particularly in international markets.

We know there is a lot of history and skepticism around this issue that causes our pilots to believe this change would harm the careers of mainline pilots. Over the last several weeks, I've spent a lot of time talking with pilots and explained my macro-economic views about this issue. I've concluded through those conversations that most pilots, once they understand the economics today between RJs and the mainline, become more open to this change. However, economic rationale aside, given the prior history surrounding this issue, it is understandably difficult for our pilots to feel good about the request for five more seats today.

It seems the reason it is difficult to convince our pilots that this change is in their best interest - and not some nefarious scheme to harm them in some way - is because the pilots of American do not fully trust management. Given the history of labor relations at American and US Airways, we can appreciate why that feeling exists. But we want to change that perception and the entire leadership team at AA is working very hard to do so.

Trust is vital to our ability to move forward and build the greatest airline in the world - together. So, even though we believe the scope request is in the best interest of all involved, we believe that establishing trust with our employees is even more important. Today's proposal omits a request to add five seats to the 76-seat jets as a sign of good faith to demonstrate the trust we want to build. Our proposal gives American pilots the highest pay rates amongst our large, network peers, and does so well before anyone could have contemplated. It is my hope that as we build a stronger, more trusting relationship that, together, we will be able to reach the best economic considerations for the 100,000 employees of American and the Company in the future.

So today we take an important step to jumpstart the trust-building process. We would ask each of you move forward in a similar spirit. Building the new American requires all of us to think differently about how we work together - your management team is committed to a new approach and we look forward to working with APA to restore American to greatness.

Sincerely,

Scott Kirby

Nov 11, 2014 1:26:40 PM

Blogs-Star-Telegram





The WSJ is saying DL + 3%, more 70/76 seaters, and no profit sharing....

Hmmmmmm



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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General Lee

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Here is a reply to the offer from a guy on another anonymous website, the poster's name was "Cheddar":





"Agreed. The 5 seat Scope grab talk wasn't wishful thinking from the company, it was a barely clever politician's ploy. Create a problem, solve said problem... all the while look magnanimous to anyone but the affected party.

We aren't even close to Delta rates if you consider our work rules and profit sharing. I've heard (from some pretty smart numbers guys) that Delta 2015 rates +12-15% would have been a very conservative starting point for ILC compensation. That doesn't even take into account Delta's C2015 that will probably blow that out of the water. Obviously, the company's proposed rates are no where close to that.

- Our work reserve rules are a joke. We had a Spirit CA on the Jumpseat last week who told us they had a minimum of 4 days off on reserve?!? ***, Really?!? Not knocking Spirit at all - good for them, but the World's "most super spectacular airline" isn't even close to that. A buddy at SWA told me they only work 15 days a month on reserve? ***... I've see the MIA reserve lines - Holy Crap they suck!!!

- 5 hours guarantee a day isn't horrible, until you realize that its per "working day" - so that 30 hour layover pays nada - No thanks, how about 5:15 for everyday on duty.

The list goes on, and on... No LOS for furloughs, etc.

American was my number one choice for many reasons, and I want the company to go KDA, make billions and all the other rah-rah stuff but man, this proposal is seriously lacking for a management group that swore up and down a few hours ago about changing culture. I for one don't want to give up anything to make close to what we'll make in Jan of 16."






I LUV the "KDA" part (supposedly "Kick Delta's azz"), and I guess that could happen maybe, especially if they don't give anyone profit sharing.....



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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St. Nic

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Still more than Del-duh you twit! The APA is united!!
 

General Lee

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Still more than Del-duh you twit! The APA is united!!

Ahahahaha! Not really Nicky! Looks like you may have to wait until DL gets higher rates in 2016, and then still without profit sharing. I guess Dougie doesn't think you should share in "his success."


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DieselDragRacer

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I don't have a dog in this fight but why would the pilots give up scope over tens of millions in revenue each year? That's a pittance to a major airline in the grand scheme of things.
 

aa73

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L&G,

It is a ******************** sandwich. Plain and simple.

No QOL improvement
No LOS
No reserve system fix
No profit sharing
No hotel language

IOW, They want us to KDA with a BK style contract.

No.

See you in arbitration
 

Freebrd

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They love those 5 additional seats so much, well, move the RJs to mainline then flown by mainline pilots!
 

Captzaahlie

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Profit sharing or pounding sand, its your choice Dougie & Kirby
 

General Lee

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Profit sharing or pounding sand, its your choice Dougie & Kirby

But Parker says ""We just think it's an inefficient way to pay team members...."



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Flopgut

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Think he was misquoted. What he more likely said was "it's very inefficient to pay team members"
 

johnsonrod

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If you give up scope you can never get it back!!!! That should be a non-starter. But I guess Dougie really wants to find a place for those upcoming MRJs...
 
P

pave driver

AAG pay rates proposed do cover what Delta pays it's pilots plus profit sharing just looking at the pay rate per hour when compared to how Delta pays profit sharing. If AAG makes another 500 million in the 4th quarter the pay rate of 219/hour for group 2 Captains is 10/hour over Delta that equals Delta pay plus their profit sharing. BUT, the devil is in the details. All the other QOL item needs improvement such as min day, scope, better rules for our reserves, etc. APA is still negotiating. This first offer is just smoke and mirror display from Parker, Kirby and Glass. We shall see.
 

General Lee

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AAG pay rates proposed do cover what Delta pays it's pilots plus profit sharing just looking at the pay rate per hour when compared to how Delta pays profit sharing. If AAG makes another 500 million in the 4th quarter the pay rate of 219/hour for group 2 Captains is 10/hour over Delta that equals Delta pay plus their profit sharing. BUT, the devil is in the details. All the other QOL item needs improvement such as min day, scope, better rules for our reserves, etc. APA is still negotiating. This first offer is just smoke and mirror display from Parker, Kirby and Glass. We shall see.

Yeah......okay Doug....


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aa73

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GL,

Not sure why you seem to be taking it personally but we are AGREEING with you that AA's proposal falls seriously short of an ILC, much less what Delta has. Trust me, we don't want Delta's current contract - we want Delta's current contract plus around 20% more in EVERY area.

In other words, we want to lead the industry for once.

We're right there with ya in criticizing what AA pushed in front of us. We are not attacking your beloved airline.

Just so we're clear.

73
 

Bringupthebird

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Historically airlines have lost more than they have made in profit. I would be more concerned with protections when the prosperity bubble bursts. Giving away scope just makes the bad times last longer for the pilots affected. Don't be too fixated on book rates because airplanes parked in the desert don't pay anything.
 

dalad

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AAG pay rates proposed do cover what Delta pays it's pilots plus profit sharing just looking at the pay rate per hour when compared to how Delta pays profit sharing. If AAG makes another 500 million in the 4th quarter the pay rate of 219/hour for group 2 Captains is 10/hour over Delta that equals Delta pay plus their profit sharing. BUT, the devil is in the details. All the other QOL item needs improvement such as min day, scope, better rules for our reserves, etc. APA is still negotiating. This first offer is just smoke and mirror display from Parker, Kirby and Glass. We shall see.

WRONG!!! My profit sharing for this year is going to be equal to 2 months pay. More than a piddly 10 bucks an hour. I've seen forecast numbers for next year for as much as 6 months pay. It increases exponentially above the $2.5 billion.
 

The Drizzle

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historically airlines have lost more than they have made in profit. I would be more concerned with protections when the prosperity bubble bursts. Giving away scope just makes the bad times last longer for the pilots affected. Don't be too fixated on book rates because airplanes parked in the desert don't pay anything.

amen.
 
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