AA makes offer to the APA----and it's.....well....uhhh

[General Lee]

AAG pay rates proposed do cover what Delta pays it's pilots plus profit sharing just looking at the pay rate per hour when compared to how Delta pays profit sharing. If AAG makes another 500 million in the 4th quarter the pay rate of 219/hour for group 2 Captains is 10/hour over Delta that equals Delta pay plus their profit sharing. BUT, the devil is in the details. All the other QOL item needs improvement such as min day, scope, better rules for our reserves, etc. APA is still negotiating. This first offer is just smoke and mirror display from Parker, Kirby and Glass. We shall see.

Yeah......okay Doug....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[aa73]

GL,

Not sure why you seem to be taking it personally but we are AGREEING with you that AA's proposal falls seriously short of an ILC, much less what Delta has. Trust me, we don't want Delta's current contract - we want Delta's current contract plus around 20% more in EVERY area.

In other words, we want to lead the industry for once.

We're right there with ya in criticizing what AA pushed in front of us. We are not attacking your beloved airline.

Just so we're clear.

73

 

[Bringupthebird]

Historically airlines have lost more than they have made in profit. I would be more concerned with protections when the prosperity bubble bursts. Giving away scope just makes the bad times last longer for the pilots affected. Don't be too fixated on book rates because airplanes parked in the desert don't pay anything.

 

[dalad]

AAG pay rates proposed do cover what Delta pays it's pilots plus profit sharing just looking at the pay rate per hour when compared to how Delta pays profit sharing. If AAG makes another 500 million in the 4th quarter the pay rate of 219/hour for group 2 Captains is 10/hour over Delta that equals Delta pay plus their profit sharing. BUT, the devil is in the details. All the other QOL item needs improvement such as min day, scope, better rules for our reserves, etc. APA is still negotiating. This first offer is just smoke and mirror display from Parker, Kirby and Glass. We shall see.

WRONG!!! My profit sharing for this year is going to be equal to 2 months pay. More than a piddly 10 bucks an hour. I've seen forecast numbers for next year for as much as 6 months pay. It increases exponentially above the $2.5 billion.

 

[The Drizzle]

historically airlines have lost more than they have made in profit. I would be more concerned with protections when the prosperity bubble bursts. Giving away scope just makes the bad times last longer for the pilots affected. Don't be too fixated on book rates because airplanes parked in the desert don't pay anything.

amen.

 

[Freebrd]

GL,

Not sure why you seem to be taking it personally but we are AGREEING with you that AA's proposal falls seriously short of an ILC, much less what Delta has. Trust me, we don't want Delta's current contract - we want Delta's current contract plus around 20% more in EVERY area.

In other words, we want to lead the industry for once.

We're right there with ya in criticizing what AA pushed in front of us. We are not attacking your beloved airline.

Just so we're clear.

73

Welcome to the world of Jenny (GL) taunting pilot groups on FI. She started with the regionals, then SWA, and now that AA is part of the USAir mess you're next I guess. A sad individual indeed. She's a frustrated wannabe dispatcher for some airline out in Utah. Unfortunately there are some on here who fall for her BS. She's also known as Merciful Fate, On Your Six, and who knows what else.

 

[aa73]

Freebird,

Not sure why you are assuming GL is a lady, and not a Delta pilot, to boot? He's had some good info over the years and I never doubted the fact that he's a pilot for Delta. Does he vigorously defend Delta to a fault, yes... who cares? I probably would too if I worked for them, truly the best legacy to work for - a company that takes care of its employees and it shows.

I'm just not sure why anyone would assume the identity of someone they're not on this site and I certainly don't think anyone really does... I mean, what's there to hide? All we're talking about is the industry. So I think you're mistaken, just curious why you trash him constantly.

Look at my profile and my experience on the left, everything there is dead on accurate and I really have no reason to alter it or assume another identity.i mean, we're all professional pilots, how old are you to be acting this way!

 

[General Lee]

GL,

Not sure why you seem to be taking it personally but we are AGREEING with you that AA's proposal falls seriously short of an ILC, much less what Delta has. Trust me, we don't want Delta's current contract - we want Delta's current contract plus around 20% more in EVERY area.

In other words, we want to lead the industry for once.

We're right there with ya in criticizing what AA pushed in front of us. We are not attacking your beloved airline.

Just so we're clear.

73

I hear ya 73, and I hope it happens.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Carl S.]

Epic low ball offer, but will we get a counter or just go to arbitration is the questions?

 

[General Lee]

Epic low ball offer, but will we get a counter or just go to arbitration is the questions?

Maybe you'll wait until 16 and get what DL gets. RA knows about your "me too" clause, and that can be both good and bad. I personally hope you get a big raise now, and the others then go higher after that. That's how this is supposed to work, right?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[pave driver]

Maybe you'll wait until 16 and get what DL gets. RA knows about your "me too" clause, and that can be both good and bad. I personally hope you get a big raise now, and the others then go higher after that. That's how this is supposed to work, right?


Bye Bye---General Lee

Okay, so, after reading every bit of information I can find, including bios of Glass (plus his firm), Parker, Kirby and their entire lackership team, my conclusion? (it may vary with more information in the future, is the following):

It saddens me to say for all involved, and it's sad for the entire industry, the AAG leadership is the most dishonest group of people I have ever known. Many warned me. Mostly the old timers.

I will, at this snapshot in time, discourage any new pilot to come to AA now because these people DO NOT CARE A SH!T about their employees and NEVER will. They will do everything in their power to outsource not only domestic, but the heavy flying we do in the future. What a load of lies and deceit. I fell for it again, and shame on me. I was furloughed before and it sucks.

For my brothas at AA, please please please read and study your contract and HOLD THEM TO IT NOW!!! Do your job and no one elses. Wholy moley, how times turn quickly. GL- you're right. Go to Delta. I think Anderson has a good heart and that is very important.

Peace to all and have a good holiday season with you and your families.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I don't blame Parker one bit. The east pilots chose leaders who preferred to fight the west for 9 years rather than try to improve their contract and consequently the starting point for future negotiations.

Remember that he unilaterally decided that he would not negotiate the west pilot contract separately even though it was open and USAPA backed him up. He does have the power to step in when he wants to and he is choosing not to step in and say that the West pilots will be given a seat at the table. His go-to strategy of letting the pilots spin their wheels in the mud while he laughs all the way to the bank has worked very well so far. And the east has still stuck with the same cast of characters that enabled Parker in the past.

So don't blame Parker. Blame those who permit non-leaders to be in power and seal the fate of others. He's seen them and beaten them before and does not take them seriously. Bring in a team that is dedicated solely to unity and you will see much better comprehensive openers from Parker.

Otherwise stay home and let the other reps do the hard work.

 

[General Lee]

Okay, so, after reading every bit of information I can find, including bios of Glass (plus his firm), Parker, Kirby and their entire lackership team, my conclusion? (it may vary with more information in the future, is the following):

It saddens me to say for all involved, and it's sad for the entire industry, the AAG leadership is the most dishonest group of people I have ever known. Many warned me. Mostly the old timers.

I will, at this snapshot in time, discourage any new pilot to come to AA now because these people DO NOT CARE A SH!T about their employees and NEVER will. They will do everything in their power to outsource not only domestic, but the heavy flying we do in the future. What a load of lies and deceit. I fell for it again, and shame on me. I was furloughed before and it sucks.

For my brothas at AA, please please please read and study your contract and HOLD THEM TO IT NOW!!! Do your job and no one elses. Wholy moley, how times turn quickly. GL- you're right. Go to Delta. I think Anderson has a good heart and that is very important.

Peace to all and have a good holiday season with you and your families.

Pave,

I truly hope you guys get a better contract, but I've never seen Parker as a generous person, especially during the East/West stuff at USAir. I think he may have enjoyed the infighting between the groups. I hope the APA goes after more, and the whole industry gets higher pay as a result.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Bringupthebird]

When it came to pilot pay, Rickenbacker wasn't generous, Patterson wasn't generous, Borman wasn't generous, Six wasn't generous, Ferris wasn't generous, Wolfe wasn't generous, Trippe wasn't generous, Howard Hughes wasn't generous, C.E. Woolman wasn't generous, C.R.Smith wasn't generous, Tom Braniff wasn't generous, Tom Davis wasn't generous...

If we relied on the generosity of airline management, there would be no pilots union. These men acted in their best interest to avoid labor strife and buy peace in good times and extract concessions in bad times.

 

[General Lee]

When it came to pilot pay, Rickenbacker wasn't generous, Patterson wasn't generous, Borman wasn't generous, Six wasn't generous, Ferris wasn't generous, Wolfe wasn't generous, Trippe wasn't generous, Howard Hughes wasn't generous, C.E. Woolman wasn't generous, C.R.Smith wasn't generous, Tom Braniff wasn't generous, Tom Davis wasn't generous...

If we relied on the generosity of airline management, there would be no pilots union. These men acted in their best interest to avoid labor strife and buy peace in good times and extract concessions in bad times.

Ok, Dougwiser seems like a droid and is a terrible leader. That's the point, he doesn't understand leadership, and good leadership means rewarding people during good times, and being frank and honest during tough times. Otherwise, your employees lose faith in their jobs. Thanks for the history lesson.




Bye Bye---General Lee