9e / XJ Integration

[RJLoser]

More power to you SEVEN.

 

[higney85]

Glorified type A chest beating is what the company would like. Divide and conquer. Before we start the "who's group is better" bashings keep in mind we are needing to be on the same team and one day WILL be one. Go team.

 

[Moustache]

That has less chance of flying than a wet fart in church.

That will go over like a..............................

Get it right!!!!!!

 

[sinkrate]

LOA 6 did not modify Section 1.

A lawyer will tell you it might. After signing it the Mesaba pilots had three subsequent opportunities, perhaps four, to bargain for the removal of this LOA. To my knowledge, they never attempted to. In fact, in 2003 or 04 they tried to use it to force Mesaba pilots onto the PCL list.

Instead of bashing each other look at the facts. PNCL Corp has a decision to make. They can try this under section one of both Agreements or under the LOA known as '6' in the Mesaba Agreement and '21' in PNCL's.

Section One will lead to two, possibly three Arbitrations. It will be dangerous for the Mesaba pilots to pursue. They may lose the argument over a seniority list integration and all go to PCL as new hires. This will no doubt be management’s position. Mesaba's scope is not very good on this issue. If the pilots prevail and the Arbitrator rules for an SLI then you must have another Arbitration for that. Once the SLI/Collective Bargaining representation is worked out attention will turn to the surviving CBA. Both current Agreements have a provision that all disputes in this process will be settled by Arbitration. Three or four years from now an Arbitrator will hand you your next Agreement. It will most likely be of short duration. Advantage to PNCL Corp - no possibility of a declaration of Impasse for 5 or 6 years but the Mesaba pilots may bring all their longevity with them. If they come to PCL as new hires it will be a big win for mangement. Second advantage - the entire process is interest Arbitration with little negotiation.

If it is done under the LOA it may or may not result in Arbitration. If the Mesaba pilots do not want to accept this they may take it to expedited Arbitration under Section one of their Agreement. If they are successful then the process above starts. If they are not - PCL will have a very angry pilot group that is still in section Six negotiations. This is a risk management will be very loath to take.

A third avenue would be to attempt to negotiate with both pilot groups. The resulting Agreement would have to be no less favorable to the company than the current agreement. They know that won't happen.
If you take what management has written at face value they do not consider this a merger or acquisition. They are going to force the Mesaba pilots to make some very tough decisions.

 

[Flyer1015]

Pinnacle management might think they have the upper had, but they will be greatly misunderstood. XJ pilots will not stand for anything that is not fair and equitable.

Oh yes they will! Just watch. Your airline got bought. Not the other way around. Prepare to get screwed.

It's hard to have backbone in a pilot group that is largely comprised of pay to fly applicants and foreign pilots who are just happy to fly a jet at any pay. Sorry to say it but it's just the way it is.....like it or not.

Nice, can't wait until you're my FO.

Our MEC will take this thing to the bitter end flighting all the way down if there is some crap in the works for a 2-1 or anything close to that.

When all is said and done, you'll probably be praying for a 2-1.

I'm causiously optomistic at this point. But that could change if Phil decides to get greedy. Game on!

"Decides" to get greedy? They already are. All of them.

 

[Flyprdu]

Here's the scenarios and the probable winners and losers:

1. Date of Hire
Winners - Senior XJ, Mid-level 9E
Losers - Senior 9E, Junior 9L

2. Relative Seniority
Winners - Senior 9E, Junior XJ, All 9L
Losers - Senior XJ, Mid/Low-level 9E

3. Ratio Blend
Winners - All 9E
Losers - All XJ, 9L

 

[Raskal]

I dunno, I look at the whole thing and come away with the exact same impression every time: "I'm f%^*ed".

 

[SEVEN]

Oh yes they will! Just watch. Your airline got bought. Not the other way around. Prepare to get screwed.


Nice, can't wait until you're my FO.


When all is said and done, you'll probably be praying for a 2-1.


"Decides" to get greedy? They already are. All of them.

I'm not your FO yet. Lots of 9E guys are forgetting it's a union matter. If we don't get something that's fair, we walk or it goes to mediation. Is there a chance we here at XJ could get screwed really, really, bad? You bet. But I still have faith that even Phil and his management team don't want this to get ugly and drag on.......could be wrong though. The Mesaba MEC will be running the show going forward as 9E MEC has asked us to lead the way.

 

[Flyer1015]

I'm not your FO yet. Lots of 9E guys are forgetting it's a union matter. If we don't get something that's fair, we walk or it goes to mediation.

Have you even been paying attention with what is happening at 9E? Our union has been helpless with the NMB not moving one bit! If anything they have put us on ice, AGAIN! And YOU can't walk until the NMB releases you into self help, then you have a 30 day cooling period, and then you can strike. The only other "walk" is you quit your job or get furloughed when assets (read: CRJs only) from your airline are transferred to Pinnacle.

Is there a chance we here at XJ could get screwed really, really, bad? You bet. But I still have faith that even Phil and his management team don't want this to get ugly and drag on.......could be wrong though. The Mesaba MEC will be running the show going forward as 9E MEC has asked us to lead the way.

Faith and Phil should NEVER go in the same sentence. Your faith has been sorely misplaced. And you will regret it. 9E mgt is out to screw you. Wake up and smell the screwing! This will not drag on. Nothing stops Phil and the gang from doing an asset transfer and moving your airplanes, and then merging the props to Colgan. That union and ALPA merger policy (SLI rules) will only come into effect when it is a MERGER.

 

[SEVEN]

Have you even been paying attention with what is happening at 9E? Our union has been helpless with the NMB not moving one bit! If anything they have put us on ice, AGAIN! And YOU can't walk until the NMB releases you into self help, then you have a 30 day cooling period, and then you can strike. The only other "walk" is you quit your job or get furloughed when assets (read: CRJs only) from your airline are transferred to Pinnacle.


Faith and Phil should NEVER go in the same sentence. Your faith has been sorely misplaced. And you will regret it. 9E mgt is out to screw you. Wake up and smell the screwing! This will not drag on. Nothing stops Phil and the gang from doing an asset transfer and moving your airplanes, and then merging the props to Colgan. That union and ALPA merger policy (SLI rules) will only come into effect when it is a MERGER.

Listen, we can go back and forth all day long. The way I read the scope language as posted earlier allows Mesaba pilots to go with the airplanes in the event they are TRANSFERED (ie Asset Transfer of airplanes) to another company. It seems you are missing the find print in the language. Phil will come across some major road blocks if he tries to pull this off. Just sayn'.

 

[Flyprdu]

Yes, the find print will stop them.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Have you even been paying attention with what is happening at 9E? Our union has been helpless with the NMB not moving one bit! If anything they have put us on ice, AGAIN! And YOU can't walk until the NMB releases you into self help, then you have a 30 day cooling period, and then you can strike. The only other "walk" is you quit your job or get furloughed when assets (read: CRJs only) from your airline are transferred to Pinnacle.


Faith and Phil should NEVER go in the same sentence. Your faith has been sorely misplaced. And you will regret it. 9E mgt is out to screw you. Wake up and smell the screwing! This will not drag on. Nothing stops Phil and the gang from doing an asset transfer and moving your airplanes, and then merging the props to Colgan. That union and ALPA merger policy (SLI rules) will only come into effect when it is a MERGER.

Bull!!!! you can all walk whenever you darn well please. See the NYC bus strike a couple years ago. The only thing you need is a group (and especially the union leaders) with a giant set of brass ones to basically tell the NMB and the government to blow them! They can't and won't throw everyone in jail. Is it risky, sure. So is everything else about this job.

 

[sinkrate]

Bull!!!! you can all walk whenever you darn well please.

City bus systems don't fall under the RLA. The American pilots tried that with a sick out in the 90's over an acquisition/merger. The monetary damages awarded by the Federal Courts essentially broke the APA. Their next contract after that was concessionary in order to satisfy the damage award. If an ALPA property tries that they will be excommunicated by ALPA so fast they won't recognize the quicksand they will be standing in. PNCL management has in the past used the Federal Court system and appears to be willing to use it again.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

They were under order not to strike and did it anyway. Not sure how that would be different. I did say it would be risky, everyone may well end up out of work for good. Also everyone should be putting pressure on their rep/senator to repeal the RLA.

 

[SEVEN]

Yes, the find print will stop them.

Yes it will. Our lawyers are ready too.

 

[CptMurf]

City bus systems don't fall under the RLA. The American pilots tried that with a sick out in the 90's over an acquisition/merger. The monetary damages awarded by the Federal Courts essentially broke the APA. Their next contract after that was concessionary in order to satisfy the damage award. If an ALPA property tries that they will be excommunicated by ALPA so fast they won't recognize the quicksand they will be standing in. PNCL management has in the past used the Federal Court system and appears to be willing to use it again.

MAIR used the Federal Court system too. Believe me, this is my 5th holdings company since I started here. XJ has been through alot, maybe more than 9E. We have been successfully released in the past. Our MEC is strong, resilient, and resourceful. They can actually be an asset to 9E negotiations and bring a signable TA to the table. Don't think we haven't dealt with a management team like this before. If we work together, we can succeed. If you (all negative posters) continue to propogate the negative, you will only cause a division in the pilot groups and we will DEFINATELY fail. Time to get on the same team here.

 

[TurboAWD]

Also everyone should be putting pressure on their rep/senator to repeal the RLA.

Do you think each pilot domicile should have it's own contract?

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Do you think each pilot domicile should have it's own contract?

I suppose that would be up to the individual pilot group. In some ways there are local rules in one place that aren't in others now.

 

[machaf]

I'm not your FO yet. Lots of 9E guys are forgetting it's a union matter. If we don't get something that's fair, we walk or it goes to mediation. Is there a chance we here at XJ could get screwed really, really, bad? You bet. But I still have faith that even Phil and his management team don't want this to get ugly and drag on.......could be wrong though. The Mesaba MEC will be running the show going forward as 9E MEC has asked us to lead the way.

So you think this is going to turn out differently than the Colgan - PCL integration arbitration? Precedent is already set bud... just saying.

 

[buscap]

you're an errand boy sent by grocery clerks to collect a bill...