9E Wins Race to Bottom

[Clutch]

Pinnacle does it cheaper

 

[centralpilot]

How does the court rejecting Pinnacle's contract help pilots at other airlines?

Imposed rates are not as compelling as voluntary concessions when negotiating or arbitrating compensation at other carriers. This TA will significantly lower the industry average. The worst parts are the 7 year duration, no snap-back provisions, and a penalty from DL if you try to get it back.

 

[bri5150]

I'm the fool?
You are selling out the whole industry.
I'm not the one lacking integrity.

So, in general, regionals are a problem with this industry. So by working at one, you are selling out the industry and lowering the wages of the industry in general (assuming you are at regional), right? Maybe you and everyone at a regional should quit until they all get jobs at mainline? That would prove your integrity and commitment to the profession. Oh wait, you can't just up and quit without a job? That is basically what you are telling him to do.

 

[ex j-41]

I am at a regional like most people. You have to start somewhere.
Now I have yet to vote on a contract in the 9 years I've been flying at one. Rest assured my vote will be a "no" unless it meets my expectations. I can be flexible on some points but there are places that I am very firm on.
Like day pay/duty rigs.
Increased pay for f/o's.
better reserve rules. Much better.

I would rather be unemployed. And yes I am ready to strike if necessary.
Less we get into debt the easier it is to walk.

 

[mesaba13]

Great post Bri! Delta CRJ pay rates are like $136.00/hr so any regional captain not making that much is undercutting mainline and is thus a sellout right? What a bunch of hypocrites!

I figured it out and the fact is you guys are pissed off because we are getting some 900's that you wanted along with some preference from Delta.

 

[imacdog]

No way, you guys are getting the 900 Heavy? LOL

 

[CoATP]

And yes I am ready to strike if necessary.
Less we get into debt the easier it is to walk.

You will never get to strike as a regional pilot. You will PROBABLY never get to strike as a mainline pilot (if you get there)

Learn about the RLA and how the president (and other politicians) will not let you.

Your only course of action is to quit and leave the industry. If you just change airlines you will eventually be in the same boat.

 

[xjhawk]

That person is just doing a lot of chest thumping. Obviously has not done any research or has been through anything like this. This is my second bankruptcy and this is my 4th contract I have been around to see voted. Until there is a way to actually hold those mainline airlines to the fire, and not to let them whipsaw the jobs around this is a lost cause. If you are so unhappy with your career-you quit and show me you have some integrity in holding the line. Because no matter where you are (regional) you are hurting our industry with your pitiful low pay. I am surprised with your attitude you even accepted the job you currently hold! You are too good for it obviously. Oh wait-that is all there is? You need to stay current and have a job till the majors start hiring? Or you need to pay the bills? Welcome to our argument. If we did not accept this, my only option was to go overseas (harder than you think to get one of those jobs and to make the decision to leave my kids) or go to Go Jets and have even worse rules and less opportunity.

Kiss my Ass-mind your own business and shut your trap unless you actually think before you type something about a situation you know nothing about

 

[pipers]

My vote was based solely on my economic and future job search. For you idiots out there.....My vote was to keep a job while I look for a new job. To make my mortgage, support my kids, and find a new job.

So....at what point would you vote no? How much is too little? If the TA was even uglier would you still vote yes?

I just wonder at what point people start to stick up for themselves when being bullied around.

 

[CRJ puppy]

How does the court rejecting Pinnacle's contract help pilots at other airlines? How does Pinnacle going under and flooding the market with unemployed pilots help other airlines? These are two possible outcomes if Pinnacle pilots vote down the TA. Resent history has shown that we have very little power indeed. Pay will go up when the demand for pilots is greater than the supply.

Ummmm. The court refused to reject the contract and the company said they wouldn't go back with another request. (Just in case you hadn't heard...)

 

[gojo]

That person is just doing a lot of chest thumping. Obviously has not done any research or has been through anything like this. This is my second bankruptcy and this is my 4th contract I have been around to see voted. Until there is a way to actually hold those mainline airlines to the fire, and not to let them whipsaw the jobs around this is a lost cause. If you are so unhappy with your career-you quit and show me you have some integrity in holding the line. Because no matter where you are (regional) you are hurting our industry with your pitiful low pay. I am surprised with your attitude you even accepted the job you currently hold! You are too good for it obviously. Oh wait-that is all there is? You need to stay current and have a job till the majors start hiring? Or you need to pay the bills? Welcome to our argument. If we did not accept this, my only option was to go overseas (harder than you think to get one of those jobs and to make the decision to leave my kids) or go to Go Jets and have even worse rules and less opportunity.

Kiss my Ass-mind your own business and shut your trap unless you actually think before you type something about a situation you know nothing about

The one's that are the most vocal about this TA are the ASA pilots.They are worried about this TA making it harder to get a good contract for them. And rightfully so. I wish it didn't have to be this way, but until your MEC and all the other ALPA carriers hold the line together, this whip sawing will never stop. He11, a good start would have been if DALPA would have figured out a way to put in their latest contract (all contract flying must be done by ALPA carriers). But they didn't give two sh1ts for us lowly regional carriers. And as the saying goes, the you know what rolls downhill.

 

[Ridgeback]

For all the haters out there I will be happy to NOT lower the bar for you. I only ask that you provide me with a list of jobs that are currently open that share pinnacles basic pay and time off. So please provide the open jobs that will pay me $85,000/ year and I want at least 10 days of vacation each month. Please respect the question, I don't want to hear go back to school, I need the pay the day I quit for you.

Thanks

 

[gojo]

For all the haters out there I will be happy to NOT lower the bar for you. I only ask that you provide me with a list of jobs that are currently open that share pinnacles basic pay and time off. So please provide the open jobs that will pay me $85,000/ year and I want at least 10 days of vacation each month. Please respect the question, I don't want to hear go back to school, I need the pay the day I quit for you.

Thanks

Or how about you quit your job in support for us? Ya, then we could hold the line together

 

[RJLoser]

Or how about you quit your job in support for us? Ya, then we could hold the line together

You offering DOH on your list to "hold the line"?

 

[ex j-41]

140 CRJ 200 trade for 30 CRJ 900's is your argument? I would have gladly let that happen and stayed separate. But the blame here is on Delta and their shady business practices. If I would do this to my neighbor I would be in jail for bribery, coercion, and insider trading.

Yet you still will vote "Yes" and try to explain why you didn't have a choice.

We all have choices. Sometimes the hard ones are the ones that determine what kind of person we are. And how flexible our beliefs can be. I don't need much to live. Took me a long time to figure that out. But when a mid ohio school bus driver gets the same pay if not greater than me... thats where i draw the line. I can quit tomorrow and be happy fishing in florida. A healthy state of mind is far more important to your family than living out of a suitcase 20 days/month.

 

[Ridgeback]

Or how about you quit your job in support for us? Ya, then we could hold the line together

Please just answer the FQ

 

[titans10]

Yet you still will vote "Yes" and try to explain why you didn't have a choice.

We all have choices. Sometimes the hard ones are the ones that determine what kind of person we are. And how flexible our beliefs can be. I don't need much to live. Took me a long time to figure that out. But when a mid ohio school bus driver gets the same pay if not greater than me... thats where i draw the line. I can quit tomorrow and be happy fishing in florida. A healthy state of mind is far more important to your family than living out of a suitcase 20 days/month.

Then you should quite. You fly for an regional right? You are lowering the bar for the industry. Please scan your resignation letter, so we can all see it. Thanks for not lowering the bar by working at a regional.

 

[ex j-41]

Whew. Where do I start?
I despise when people say "just quit". Just such an ignorant comment.
What I will do is hold my own and when it comes to my turn to vote, I will only vote to raise the bar. If and when I am given that opportunity.
We are all overworked and under paid. Why in the world would you vote to lower the already low wages?

 

[gojo]

Please just answer the FQ

Ridge, please disregard. I quoted you in error on my phone. I'm on your side.

 

[bri5150]

Whew. Where do I start?
I despise when people say "just quit". Just such an ignorant comment.
What I will do is hold my own and when it comes to my turn to vote, I will only vote to raise the bar. If and when I am given that opportunity.
We are all overworked and under paid. Why in the world would you vote to lower the already low wages?

You may dispise the comment "just quit", but that is what you are telling people to do by voting no. Their no vote says "I quit" because your pay is too low. You said it right in your post, you are underpaid and are voting yes by continuing your employment at your current airline. You should vote no on your own by quitting like you want everyone at Pinnacle to do.

 

[jc3]

From pubic Infomation:

Make sure you remember these wage scales and what 9E will do to the scale where you work when they come looking for a jumpseat.

The new bottom is Pinnacle.

I no longer work at Pinnacle, but still want to slap the $hit out of you. Do realize they are more upset with this situation then you are? What about there wives, children, mortgages, and other bills? Life is not as simple as a message board. Where do you get off threatening a whole pilot groups jump-seating ability? What an A-hole.

 

[EL10]

What lowers the bar more for the regional industry, the voting in of this TA, having the companies LBFO imposed, or shutting down and having all the aircraft go to GoJets?

 

[mesaba13]

I just would like an answer to a simple question? How is working at any regional not lowering the bar?

 

[jc3]

I'm the fool?
You are selling out the whole industry.
I'm not the one lacking integrity.

Another genius with all the answers.

 

[titans10]

Whew. Where do I start?
I despise when people say "just quit". Just such an ignorant comment.
What I will do is hold my own and when it comes to my turn to vote, I will only vote to raise the bar. If and when I am given that opportunity.
We are all overworked and under paid. Why in the world would you vote to lower the already low wages?

You do have an opportunity right now by saying no I will not lower the bar. What is the pay difference between what you make and what a mainline guy makes. In your argument, you are lowering the bar against the mainline. Just quit. That's is what you are telling the poor 9E guys to do. They have to vote how they see fit. Not what you want them to do.

 

[ex j-41]

You do have an opportunity right now by saying no I will not lower the bar. What is the pay difference between what you make and what a mainline guy makes. In your argument, you are lowering the bar against the mainline. Just quit. That's is what you are telling the poor 9E guys to do. They have to vote how they see fit. Not what you want them to do.

OK, I will dumb this down for you. Quitting does nothing. My position just gets filled by the next in line.
Voting NO. Gives the message to management that you are not going to work for sub par wages.

OK so what did we accomplish here?
Quitting = no message to management
Voting NO = a FU message to management.

All boils down to what kind of person you are. Voting Yes just tells management that they made the deal too good and they will come back for more. Until you vote NO they are going to keep stealing from you. Get it?

 

[dingo222]

or voting no tells delta it's ok to run another regional into the ground and reset the longevity of another 2000 or so pilots. Reseting the longevity of 2400 pcl pilots is worth a hell of a lot more to delta than pay rates. The took out the most senior group, comair, and pcl is next. Thats why blojets and compass are comparatively cheaper. Logevity resets or concessionary contract? Delta wins either was once they force you into BK. Great game we are all playing here

 

[jc3]

OK, I will dumb this down for you. Quitting does nothing. My position just gets filled by the next in line.
Voting NO. Gives the message to management that you are not going to work for sub par wages.

OK so what did we accomplish here?
Quitting = no message to management
Voting NO = a FU message to management.

All boils down to what kind of person you are. Voting Yes just tells management that they made the deal too good and they will come back for more. Until you vote NO they are going to keep stealing from you. Get it?

Oh cool, now I understand. Thanks for dumbing it down for us, we not so smart. Amazing how people justify things in there favor.

 

[JT12345]

Delta was trying desperately to get Comair to agree to this level of wage reduction before they shut them down (wouldn't have changed their course). Comair pilots held the line until the end. That will be remembered.

The only thing the Delta pilots remember about Comair is how their group would not hire any furloughed Delta pilots. I also remember jump seating on Comair and their pilots talking about buying Delta when Delta was in bankruptcy.

At least the Pinnacle pilots hired NWA furloughed pilots, and I bet the Northwest pilot group remembers that too. Never bite the hand that feeds you.

I bet the General can verify how he feels about that?

_________________________________



I did not read every page of this thread, but did not see any 50 seat rates. Anyone have Captain pay rate 5/12/18 year for both 900 and 200 for this new deal?

Now I heard that even if you vote yes they plan on getting rid of airplanes and furloughing. How many airplanes and furloughs do they tell you with a yes vote verse a no vote?

Man that is rough. Tough choices. It never ends in this industry.

 

[General Lee]

Well, there were certainly a lot of unhappy people, unhappy about the turned down offer by their MEC. They supposedly wanted more CR7s to allow furloughed pilots to be stapled to his list, while giving up recall rights. It was a bad deal during an unfortunate time. I thought the initial flow up offered to Mesaba guys was unbelievable, with no interview or medical. This time it will be different, but still a good opportunity for many. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee