9E Wins Race to Bottom

[mesaba13]

How is it that the Comair guys can hold their heads higher than the rest? Do you know what their last offer was to management?

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Let's not try to discuss the merrits of whether or not the refinery was a good deal (most analysts think it could save millions per year now), I was saying I think management has many plans depending on how this TA will go. So far they seem to be ahead of everyone else. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

HA! Only General Lee could get away with saying let's not talk about something (then throw in his tired broken record I'm better than you comment anyhow).

Everyone needs to block this idiot and deny him his coveted 20K posts. HELLO! HE SAYS THE SAME STUPID FLAMEBAIT OVER AND OVER! HE ISN'T EVEN A DELTA PILOT! YET YOU GUYS FALL FOR IT AND ARGUE WITH HIM EVERY TIME!

 

[JustaNumber]

This was really created by the PNCL BK. Without it, there would be no changing of the contract. It was the merger between all 3 airlines, and the resulting list and costs. The rest is all a result of the BK. BK is never fun, and it allows others to control the situation.


Bye Bye---General Lee

So what really caused the BK? The costs associated with the merger? Mergers happen all the time without bankruptcy, so that's not it. How about, 9E management and DL/aka NW intentionally concocted a scheme to underbid all the other regionals, at below cost, in exchange for temporary growth and management enrichment. When it eventually all fell apart, as it was designed to, a BK-imposed concessionary contract would be used to strong-arm all the other regionals in the portfolio. DL would then have the lowest regional costs in the industry and would enjoy an advantage over the competition, and DL management would walk away with millions. It was a brilliantly evil plan.

 

[Indy319FA]

Ummmmmm, no. How long did Indy Air last "stand alone?" (You had a front row seat, too). They had plenty of cash, but everyone else gave them the squeeze. Also, if they tried that, they could lose their feed contracts, or guaranteed money. Not likely to happen, and very foolish if it did. Indy Air was the perfect example. Also, tell me where there is room for a "new" airline to set up shop and not "bother" a legacy or LCC? The city would have to be big enough too to support the new venture. Indy Air tried IAD, and still couldn't survive long. Also, you don't seem to understand what other things a new venture would need, like reservation systems, advertising, and all of the other things they currently don't have themselves. Southwest STILL doesn't have IT systems that can handle INTL reservations, they have to use AirTran's system and planes for INTL ops. It's kinda complicated...... Unlikely.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Why Independence Air failed wasnt the point. The point I am making is Akin has been smart enough to get rid of the 50 seaters, and has aircraft on order that can be run profitably in a stand alone operation IF NEEDED. DL management has backup plans and so does Skywest. Had Skeen followed the original Goldilocks plan, which called for sending the 200s back to lessors as the contracts expired, and aquiring larger aircraft with lower CASMs for the stand alone operation, instead of flying 50 seaters around for 6 months and buring through millions in cash, the Fly I fiasco would have been very different. Akin isn't that stupid. Nor is he stupid enough to negotiate contracts that will lose money.

If Delta wants to play hardball with Akin and Skywest/Expressjet when their contracts expire, they will find it will be very different from any other regional they have dealt with. They have a very good management team, are well capitalized, and have shrewd management.

We'll see how the whole 9E situation plays out. I wouldn't be surprised if it passes because of the bribes that are going to be paid to the junior guys, and the hope of a job a Delta for the senior guys. I also wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't pass either. During my time there I saw how management used and abused the employees, and how hard the fight was for the contract in 2011. So I won't be surprised if many there vote no just out of spite for former and present management (Delta included). I'd say its a toss up and will be close either way, and I can understand how a vote can be justified either way. Best of luck to all the folks at 9E, you're going to need it no matter how this votes turns out. While I didn't enjoy working for the company, I did enjoy working with many of the people there and they deserve a better fate that what is in front of them, but unfortunately Uncle Phil drove the company into the ground.

 

[Indy319FA]

So what really caused the BK? The costs associated with the merger? Mergers happen all the time without bankruptcy, so that's not it. How about, 9E management and DL/aka NW intentionally concocted a scheme to underbid all the other regionals, at below cost, in exchange for temporary growth and management enrichment. When it eventually all fell apart, as it was designed to, a BK-imposed concessionary contract would be used to strong-arm all the other regionals in the portfolio. DL would then have the lowest regional costs in the industry and would enjoy an advantage over the competition, and DL management would walk away with millions. It was a brilliantly evil plan.

Sheer incompetence. Pinnacle was the most poorly mangaged airline I've ever run into. If not for the hard work of dedicated employees, the place would have fallen apart long ago. Having worked at another company (Republic) with multiple certificates, I was shocked at how poorly the company handled the merger and the operation of multiple certificates. I remember working in the SOC when members of the board started coming in to observe the operation. Once of the board members that had worked at Continental and JetBlue came by scheduling to ask some questions. He was astounded at how backwards our whole scheduling system was and how we operated. He sat with his head in his hands writing stuff down for a while. Uncle Phil was shown the door shortly after. Menke did some good things, but by the time he got to the bridge the Titanic was taking on water, and going down fast. Not a whole lot he could do to stop it. If anybody could ever be accused of managment malpractice it was Uncle Phil and his gang.

 

[777forever]

Why Independence Air failed wasnt the point. The point I am making is Akin has been smart enough to get rid of the 50 seaters, and has aircraft on order that can be run profitably in a stand alone operation IF NEEDED. DL management has backup plans and so does Skywest. Had Skeen followed the original Goldilocks plan, which called for sending the 200s back to lessors as the contracts expired, and aquiring larger aircraft with lower CASMs for the stand alone operation, instead of flying 50 seaters around for 6 months and buring through millions in cash, the Fly I fiasco would have been very different. Akin isn't that stupid. Nor is he stupid enough to negotiate contracts that will lose money.

If Delta wants to play hardball with Akin and Skywest/Expressjet when their contracts expire, they will find it will be very different from any other regional they have dealt with. They have a very good management team, are well capitalized, and have shrewd management.

We'll see how the whole 9E situation plays out. I wouldn't be surprised if it passes because of the bribes that are going to be paid to the junior guys, and the hope of a job a Delta for the senior guys. I also wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't pass either. During my time there I saw how management used and abused the employees, and how hard the fight was for the contract in 2011. So I won't be surprised if many there vote no just out of spite for former and present management (Delta included). I'd say its a toss up and will be close either way, and I can understand how a vote can be justified either way. Best of luck to all the folks at 9E, you're going to need it no matter how this votes turns out. While I didn't enjoy working for the company, I did enjoy working with many of the people there and they deserve a better fate that what is in front of them, but unfortunately Uncle Phil drove the company into the ground.

Well said. I would like to interject about the bribe part. What bribe? Unless it's a bribe with their own money. Most 9E FOs are going to take a 9% paycut and be furloughed anyway over a year from now, with around 6k of their own money on the way out.

Own money you ask? Yes! Because if the contract is voted down, you can give yourself a severance package by saving 9% of your pay per month until you get furloughed during the wind down.

This TA does nothing for FOs and junior captains in the long run. The prime beneficiaries are the top 400 senior captains who will keep their seat but will topped of at 91/hr, bringing unnecessary pressure on the rest of the DCI portfolio. Very few of them will move on to Delta or elsewhere, clogging up 400+ jobs, in addition to the 400 FO spots that can be given to another regional in the event PNCL winds down.

If PNCL winds down, there will be more regional jobs with faster career progression for those at PNCL that will be furloughed anyway.

If the TA is voted in, there will be less jobs for the furloughs as 800ish jobs will be clogged by senior PNCL pilots paid at very low pay rates, which will make all the furloughs scrambling for fewer jobs that are paid even less due to the TA they just voted in.

It's not worth the 6k of your own money.

 

[Clutch]

BS! Pinnacle does it cheaper!

 

[e=mc2]

Yhea ole Tommy boy worked real hard to save his do nothing never has to fly job at the expense of the rest of the pilot group. But there are 1800 pilots who will get the shaft to pay for his ability to do nothing.

 

[profit]

Clutch and mc.squared.. why dont you go have a nice hot shower together and leave the rational discussion to the adults.

Oh, and Merry Christmas!

 

[Clutch]

Clutch and mc.squared.. why dont you go have a nice hot shower together and leave the rational discussion to the adults.

Oh, and Merry Christmas!

Your hatred for me is your own self-loathing redirected outward.. I'm sorry. I wish your sketchy company didn't exist either. Mesa, GoJet, now you... Whatever. Vote yes. At least you have a job right?