42.7% of JetBlue Pilots Have Apps Out

[Smarta$$]

Awesome. Upgrading due to attrition. Just like working for Mesa, Asa, Trans States, etc, only we have worse health insurance. But hey that doesn't affect you.

With no retirements, THATS ALL WE HAVE!!!

Tell me, will a union and higher pilot wages produce more retirements and faster upgrade times?

 

[Smarta$$]

Im eager to read SMARTA$$ remark about this. Im just curious to see what this liberal leftist warrior will spring out to flightinfo. Im willing to bet he thinks anyone trying to get out of Jetblue are crazy or notorious.

I think people should leave JetBlue. I think people should run screaming and crying from your job. Tool.

 

[Smarta$$]

We have a winner!

How the F does "upgrades due to attrition" help the guys already captains at bluejet?

Anyone? Anyone?

Yep, ask the junior guys to take it in the a$$$$ on their upgrade so you can have your cake and my cake also. Sorry, attrition is all I have for seniority movement.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

It's an interesting choice, to call the guy opposing a union a "leftist."

 

[BeachBummer]

It's an interesting choice, to call the guy opposing a union a "leftist."

 

[pilotpayne]

With no retirements, THATS ALL WE HAVE!!!

Tell me, will a union and higher pilot wages produce more retirements and faster upgrade times?

That is your problem not his...
I like the guys on bluepilots that say since the 190
is the highest paid in the world only the airbus should get a raise.
Or the guy that wants more vacation blocks but does not want to change how
we bid for them.
It's how it has always been and how it will always be.
The seniority system can suck.

 

[Smarta$$]

We have a winner!

How the F does "upgrades due to attrition" help the guys already captains at bluejet?

Anyone? Anyone?

To say this another way, YOU made captain at JB because of growth and attrition. Now you want to do things that will reduce growth and attrition. But hey, YOU are already a captain, so its not your problem...

 

[Smarta$$]

That is your problem not his...
I like the guys on bluepilots that say since the 190
is the highest paid in the world only the airbus should get a raise.
Or the guy that wants more vacation blocks but does not want to change how
we bid for them.
It's how it has always been and how it will always be.
The seniority system can suck.

I don't always agree with you, but this is exactly right.

 

[StarChecker]

I don't always agree with you, but this is exactly right.

Just a minor correction, because it's not exactly right....


Our vacation system is a horror show not because of the way we bid, but because JetBlue does not allot enough vacation weeks based on pilot seniority. Every JetBlue pilot, regardless of seniority, is allotted 2 weeks vacation. That's why the top 5% get all the desirable vacation slots. Changing the way we bid vacations will do nothing to correct the problem.

JetBlue saves 30-60 million every year doing this (see PVC email in June). They will never change it unless we negotiate for better.

 

[StarChecker]

My two buddies working there as CA's seem pretty satisfied with their lot in life compared to flying at JUS.

I was unaware that a third-tier cargo carrier was in our peer set....

 

[fam62c]

Maybe but the point he is making is when you come to a "destination airline" everything should be better. The fact that one of a pilots most important forms of compensation is so lacking says a lot about the company and what future hires will be dealing with. Begging for average everyday.

www.bluetruthpilots.com

Maybe your assumption that JB is a "destination airline" is in error. JB is a small airline with slow growth, few retirements and limited basing options, it is what it is and some percentage of the pilots will want more than that and move on. I am sorry you feel you were promised something and it didn't happen but that's way this industry works, anybody who has been around the block in aviation knows that.

You can either sit at JB, be unhappy, work to change things and hope it will become what you think it should be (maybe it will happen) or start over at another carrier that has the things you think you deserve. Sometimes a big fish in a little pond is unwilling to become a smaller fish in a bigger pond with more room to grow. What kind of fish are you

 

[pilotpayne]

Just a minor correction, because it's not exactly right....


Our vacation system is a horror show not because of the way we bid, but because JetBlue does not allot enough vacation weeks based on pilot seniority. Every JetBlue pilot, regardless of seniority, is allotted 2 weeks vacation. That's why the top 5% get all the desirable vacation slots. Changing the way we bid vacations will do nothing to correct the problem.

JetBlue saves 30-60 million every year doing this (see PVC email in June). They will never change it unless we negotiate for better.

So the top guy can only bid 2 weeks?
Are you sure about that?
If you save up your pto you can bid as much vacation as you want.
So your post is a kind of a lie. ( kind of)
Yes they give 2 weeks per pilot overall to come up with how many slots there are (which should change) but if there were more slots and you keep the current system how far down the list do you think summer vacation would go?
The top guys would still get everything just more now.
Unless you put a limit on how many slots you can bid the top guys will always get all the good stuff.
I think there should be more vacation slots.
We need to add more vacation blocks and remove vacation from pto time...ie
real vacation time and bid in rounds 2 at a time from top to bottom.
That's what I would do....but I am just a 190 guy and an FO at that.

 

[pilotpayne]

Maybe your assumption that JB is a "destination airline" is in error. JB is a small airline with slow growth, few retirements and limited basing options, it is what it is and some percentage of the pilots will want more than that and move on. I am sorry you feel you were promised something and it didn't happen but that's way this industry works, anybody who has been around the block in aviation knows that.

You can either sit at JB, be unhappy, work to change things and hope it will become what you think it should be (maybe it will happen) or start over at another carrier that has the things you think you deserve. Sometimes a big fish in a little pond is unwilling to become a smaller fish in a bigger pond with more room to grow. What kind of fish are you

Yup

I will say our growth LATELY has not been slow.
It's all fluid how soon we forget the majors had crap contracts.(yes they were BK)
Things have changed and its up to the ELT to get with it.

 

[BeachBummer]

So the top guy can only bid 2 weeks?
Are you sure about that?
I think there should be more vacation slots.
We need to add more vacation blocks and remove vacation from pto time...ie
real vacation time and bid in rounds 2 at a time from top to bottom.
That's what I would do....but I am just a 190 guy and an FO at that.

You didn't read the post correctly. Every pilot is ALLOTTED 2 weeks. Not only able to bid two weeks. Guys allotted two weeks can and do bid 6 some as many as 8 weeks of vacation.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Just like slow movement doesn't affect you because you're senior?

Nobody is senior unless you are top 200 at this place. Even that might not get you vacation in the summer. I ain't in the top 200.

 

[pilotpayne]

You didn't read the post correctly. Every pilot is ALLOTTED 2 weeks. Not only able to bid two weeks. Guys allotted two weeks can and do bid 6 some as many as 8 weeks of vacation.

I did see changes above.
I am all for more vacation slots.
But all this is moot anyway right.
We don't have a CBA so we get what we get.
As far as attrition, nothing will wake the ELT up like cx flights due to lack of crews. It shouldn't be that way but they are still living about 3 years in the past.
The cycle favors pilots now.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Maybe your assumption that JB is a "destination airline" is in error. JB is a small airline with slow growth, few retirements and limited basing options, it is what it is and some percentage of the pilots will want more than that and move on. I am sorry you feel you were promised something and it didn't happen but that's way this industry works, anybody who has been around the block in aviation knows that.

You can either sit at JB, be unhappy, work to change things and hope it will become what you think it should be (maybe it will happen) or start over at another carrier that has the things you think you deserve. Sometimes a big fish in a little pond is unwilling to become a smaller fish in a bigger pond with more room to grow. What kind of fish are you

Your kidding right? This was the company's line and promise, not something I made up.

My comments were in regards to jetblue being better than republic. I stand by what I said. I should have better retirement, QOL, and health benefits. The fact that one of our biggest forms of compensation is below that of almost every regional is pathetic.

But by your post I guess I should just be happy I saw my benefits cut to the point where we now have put off having another child.

My apps out everywhere just like the large majority of FOs and even some captains. In the meantime I will continue to do my part to make this place better.

Www.bluetruthpilots.com

 

[pilotpayne]

Just in regards to the destination airline.

Your kidding right? This was the company's line and promise, not something I made up.

How long ago did you start?
The healthcare went downhill but what else changed so much?
I am not being an a-- just asking what changed since you signed on?

All for a CBA here.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

How long ago did you start?
The healthcare went downhill but what else changed so much?
I am not being an a-- just asking what changed since you signed on?

All for a CBA here.

I edited my post but I will also answer your question..

I have been here over 2 years.

The health care change alone was enough. The promise of industry average compensation has changed to industry competitive. By the company's own processes that they setup and agreed to, the A321 should fall into a different pay category(granted industry wide they are usually paid the same). The attempted changing of our agreed upon peer set. Two way domestic code share.
I think this is where most of the frustration lies with most pilots. You set the bar here, you made these provision so stick with them. Easy example is the annual pay review process and A321 issue. It should take all of about 5 mins to calculate. The process is in place give me a calculator.

It's not just what happened since I have been here though. Go to the website and read all of promises broken. All the different committees established and abandon.

It goes far beyond that though. Integration in the event of a merger? Domestic code share and scope. No guarantees in a CBA I get that but I would absolutely rather take my chances with it all written in black in a white in a nationally recognized contract.

We are a publicly traded company and quite honestly our performance lately has been terrible compared to the rest of the industry. What if Dave and friends are asked to "spend more time with their families."We are one CEO change away from having very hostile management. I would rather have a contract in place to deal with the next guy and the guy after that.

16 hour duty limits. 3 leg red eyes. Established grievance rules. Established discipline procedures, aeromedical coverages, and professional aeronautical lawyers available to me at any time.


I want Jetblue to succeed. If I stay here I will retire extremely senior(top 10). I will come to work and do all I can to make this place succeed but I will not do it at the expense of my family. Right now the numbers tell me I have to leave so my apps are out. In the meantime I will do everything I can to improve the compensation and benefits for myself and the rest of the jetblue pilots.

 

[pilotpayne]

I edited my post but I will also answer your question..

I have been here over 2 years.

The health care change alone was enough. The promise of industry average compensation has changed to industry competitive. By the company's own processes that they setup and agreed to, the A321 should fall into a different pay category(granted industry wide they are usually paid the same). The attempted changing of our agreed upon peer set. Two way domestic code share.
I think this is where most of the frustration lies with most pilots. You set the bar here, you made these provision so stick with them. Easy example is the annual pay review process and A321 issue. It should take all of about 5 mins to calculate. The process is in place give me a calculator.

It's not just what happened since I have been here though. Go to the website and read all of promises broken. All the different committees established and abandon.

It goes far beyond that though. Integration in the event of a merger? Domestic code share and scope. No guarantees in a CBA I get that but I would absolutely rather take my chances with it all written in black in a white in a nationally recognized contract.

We are a publicly traded company and quite honestly our performance lately has been terrible compared to the rest of the industry. What if Dave and friends are asked to "spend more time with their families."We are one CEO change away from having very hostile management. I would rather have a contract in place to deal with the next guy and the guy after that.

16 hour duty limits. 3 leg red eyes. Established grievance rules. Established discipline procedures, aeromedical coverages, and professional aeronautical lawyers available to me at any time.


I want Jetblue to succeed. If I stay here I will retire extremely senior(top 10). I will come to work and do all I can to make this place succeed but I will not do it at the expense of my family. Right now the numbers tell me I have to leave so my apps are out. In the meantime I will do everything I can to improve the compensation and benefits for myself and the rest of the jetblue pilots.

Good post. Thank you for well thought out post.
If all that changed for the better would you still stay?
I wonder if all these things did change how many young guys would still stick it out?